Luftwaffe Museums in Germany - 5

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Mikael Olrog
Techniches Museum Berlin in 1940's
Wed May 2 14:18:35 2001


Does anyone have a complete listing of the aircraft that was part of this collection before it was destroyed/dispersed? Or can you suggest a website or book where I can find it?

I'm curious to know to what extent they added captured aircraft to their collection or if it was strictly german aircraft only.

Thanks for your help!
/Mikael

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Hans
Re: Techniches Museum Berlin in 1940's
Wed May 2 17:21:42 2001


Mikael

I was in 1943 in that museum and they had about any thing I can remember that existed and yes there were other than German aircraft but no Beute planes that I know of. The most impressive plane in there was the DO X from which the tips of the upper propeller blades were cut down to accommodate this flying boat. Somewhere,but not inside I saw a "Rata"

Regards

Hans

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Mikael Olrog
Museum
Wed May 2 17:42:45 2001


It must have been nice to visit that museum!

I know of the Do X, the He 112, the He 100 that took the world speed record and then later the Me 209 which improved the record. I also believe that the He 178 and the He 280 might have been preserved there. Also a Dornier Wal was preserved.

/Mikael

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Stefan Vetteriek
Deutsche Luftfahrt Sammlung
Wed May 2 19:06:41 2001


Hi Mikael,

the book

HUNDERTMARK, M., STEINLE, H. (1985): "Phoenix aus der Asche - Die Deutsche Luftfahrtsammlung Berlin", Silberstreif Verlag, Berlin (o.o.p)

contains a listing of over 100 aircraft that are known to have been part of the exhibition on p. 110-114.

HTH

Stefan

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Tom Willis
Deutsche Luftfahrt -Sammlung-Berlin
Wed May 2 21:20:16 2001


Hi

This collection was a unique collection and did indeed have in it's inventory quite a few Beute aircraft from many countries as well as captured First World War!

Airco DH 9A
Sopwith Camel
Spad S13
Spad SA-2

Bloch MB 200 (ex Czech a/c)
Fairey Battle I (ex RAF)
Gloster Gladiator Mk II (ex Baltic States?)
Hawker Hurricane I (ex RAF)
Yak 1 (ex Russian)
MiG 3 (ex Russian)
Morane MS 230 (ex French)
Morane MS 406 (ex French)
UTI 4 (ex Russian)
I-16 (ex Russian) 'Rata'
Potez 63-11 (ex French)
PZL P-38/I (ex Polish)
PZL P.11c (ex Polish)
PWS 26 (ex Polish) 'still with Lw markings'
Spifire II (ex RAF)
Wellington II (ex RAF) 'in wrecked condition'

a mystery!!!

Stinson L-5 Sentinel; s/n 42-98643

I am not sure whether this was a part of the original collection but when some of the aircraft were discovered at Krakow in Poland after the war most of the aircraft were from this collection. The Sentinel was discovered with them.

Can anybody help.

In response to Hans when he visited the Museum some the beute aircraft may have been taken out and stored. Like all museums everything changes from time to time, things added and items taken away.

The Luftwaffe too had a museum where all of the collection consisted of foreign and beute aircraft called BeutePark de Lw 5 at Nanterre in Paris.

Kind regards

Tom Willis

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Tom Willis
Berlin Museum - additions
Wed May 2 21:30:05 2001


Hi

Forgot to include the Dutch beute types:

Douglas 8A-3N
Fokker D.21

Tom

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Peter 'Mikolaj' Mikolajski
Poland
Wed May 2 23:37:30 2001


You've wrote "I am not sure whether this was a part of the original collection but when some of the aircraft were discovered at Krakow in Poland after the war most of the aircraft were from this collection."
Planes were evacuated from museum in 1943 and were sent in six (?) different places. In Czarnkow near Poznan (Poland) Germans sent PZL P.11c, PWS-26 and several other planes. Most of them were recovered after the war and is exhibited in museum in Krakow. DH-9a (F1010) was exchanged for Spitfire XVI and one plane is in Berlin. I can add also Hawk used by Udet (still with Olympic rings), Me 209 (fuselage, wings are in other museum and this museum probablu has sth else from original collection), Halberstadt CL-II 15459/17 fabric nr 1046 and Aviatik C-III 12250/17 fabric nr 1996. I think that Hans could not see some captured planes because they could had German markings (i.e. Polish PWS-26 and PZL P.38/I Wilk).

Greets

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Tom Willis
Berlin Museum - Poland
Thu May 3 15:09:50 2001


Hi

Thanks for the info:

I thought that some at least were left at Krakow.

Do you have the information as to where the other locations in Poland that the aircraft were stored?

I did not mention the Hawk, ex D-IRIK because the list only dealt with beute (booty) aircraft.

Only the PWS 26 was displayed with Lw markings VG+AS; the PZL P.38/I kept its original Polish markings. This was the same as all of the other beute aircraft in the collection.

Kind regards

Tom

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Peter 'Mikolaj' Mikolajski
Markings
Thu May 3 20:53:55 2001


Unfortunately only one place was found in Poland. Maybe other planes are still hidden?
Few years ago (maybe eight?) I saw two pics from museum in Berlin. Our PZL P.38/I had no markings. No German signs and no Polish. Unfortunately this plane still is missing.

Well, I'm looking for any info about any captured planes because I (and many other visitors of 12 O'Clock) prepared website about captured planes. World War Two section is open but there is only list of captured planes. More info and pics will be available soon. I just need some time to prepare all photos (almost 200) to put them on.

Greets

Peter

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Mikael Olrog
Thanks for great information! (n/t)
Thu May 3 18:42:47 2001

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Hans
missing Beute planes
Wed May 9 01:47:00 2001


Howdy Y'all

When I had a chance to visit the museum, The Bombing at berlin was in full force.
There was some kind of evacuation because there were some empty spaces. Not far away from the museum there were some bombhits and afterwards Moabith was hit badly. At one time on an Sunday, we were called out to help clearing the bombdamage and reached one cellar in which 22 woman end children were huddled An very scared look on their faces. And all were dead, the results of an "Airmine" An large bomb that exploded in the air and bursted longues of the victims.
Not very far away from the museum.

I never had a chance to visit the museum again.

Bad memories.

Hans

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Dave Pawlikowski
He-177 in a museum?
Sat Jun 2 01:04:53 2001


Did any He-177 survive the conflict and end up in a museum afterward?

Was the plane tested by the Allies after WW2? Saved, scrapped,or other?

TIA

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Alex. W. Hohl
Re: Captain Eric Brown of the RAE
Sat Jun 2 05:45:05 2001


Hi Gordon,

I have to ad sth. There are some remains of the He 177 in an Museum. The Deutschens Museum in Schleißheim near Munich in Germany got recovered parts out od the lake Ammersee. You can see a Undercarrage with out tire, a pilot seat a capnopy of the remoted turrent and different smal pieces of that aircraft.
That's all.

Greetings from Germany

Alex

P.S. Don't forget Jim Sterling.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Dave
Possibly ..
Sat Jun 2 08:00:14 2001


A wreck in Lk.Constance - apparently radar images show it to be mostly intact - but very deep . Maybe we shall see her break the surface one day ;-)

Dave

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Mikael Olrog
Some remains
Sat Jun 2 14:40:03 2001


You can see photos of two different He 177 undercarriages on my site as well as a photo of a DB 610 preserved in England.

www.algonet.se/~molrog/ (http://www.algonet.se/~molrog/)

Go to the section /german aircraft/relics/ and
/german aircraft/engines/DaimlerBenz/

/Mikael

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Christoph Vernaleken
Some pieces are also in Oberschleißheim
Sat Jun 2 15:07:11 2001


In the Deutsches Museum's annex Museum in Oberschleißheim, there are some parts of a He 177 that crashed in the Ammersee. I can look up the c/n for you if you want; I also have pics of some of the parts on display. They have the undercarriage, part of the cooler, the pilot's seat and more metal parts.

Cheers,

Christoph

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Friedrich
Hannover-Laatzen: Gibt es dort ein Museum mit Spitfire?
Mon Jun 11 19:02:13 2001


Kennt jemand die Adresse und um was für eine Maschine handelt es sich?

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Günther Rosipal
Re: Hannover-Laatzen: Gibt es dort ein Museum mit Spitfire?
Mon Jun 11 19:11:20 2001


Luftfahrtmuseum Laatzen-Hannover
Ulmer Str.2
30880 Laatzen
Tel 0511-8791791
Geöffnet tägl. außer Montags von 10-17 Uhr

Sptfire Mk 14

Ein Besuch bei uns lohnt sich!
Günther

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Jim Sterling
OT: Where to visit in Germany?
Thu Jun 14 07:45:03 2001


Hi All,
As a long time 'lurker', I thought I'd actually post a message! (Gordon told me to) I am planning a trip to Germany this October, for the Luftwaffe Fighter Pilots meeting in Geisenheim, and I was looking for ideas on places to visit. Of course, air museums and restoration projects would be a must! But also sceinc places, museums, etc etc etc.

Any ideas, comments and such are welcome. We (wife and I) are planning 2 weeks from Oct 4th to the 18th.

thanks!
Jim

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Mr.Gianmaria
Germany
Thu Jun 14 13:16:20 2001


If you have time, you may visit the Deutsches Museum in Munich, that offers a broad quantity of wonderments, including WWII aircraft (site: http://www.deutsches-museum.de/index.htm) You can find everything you need about Munich at www.muenchen-tourist.de (http://www.muenchen-tourist.de) (Both sites have English version).

Regards
Gianmaria

[Richard T Eger]

The Walter Website, by Shamus Reddin, covers the rocket motors produced by Walter and the missiles and aircraft they were used in. The site address is:

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<U>What's New</U> - Site update information.

<U>About the Walter Web Site</U>

<U>Acknowledgemants</U>

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Aircraft Motors & The Me.163

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USA

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Regards,
Richard