Wehrmachtsauskunftstelle fur Kriegeverluste und Kriegsgefangene (WASt) - 2

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Frank Quast
NJG5 Loss 5.Jan.1944
Mon Aug 6 21:15:14 2001


At 5.Jan. 1944 there were heavy air-combats in the area west of Hamburg. I have record about several downed P-38,B-17 and B-24, but also 3 fighters of 8./NJG 5 were shot down.
One of them was the Bf 110 (C9+AR) of Uffz. Alexander Wallrauch, who crashed near my hometown. The pilot died.
Has anybody further information, especially about the NJG 5 in those days,the mentioned pilot or the airwar at 5.Jan. 44 in the Hamburg area?

Frank

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Melvin Brown
jager2uk@yahoo.ie
NJG5 losses 05.01.44.
Tue Aug 7 00:27:24 2001


Dear Frank,

I can offer the following information from the NJG5 WASt returns for 05.01.44;

Messerschmitt Bf 110G-4
Wnr.5673 C9+AR 8/NJG5 (Bei Uetersen)

FF. Uffz. Alexander Wallrauch. + Erk.53143/8
Geb. 25.09.1921 in Obergriesheim/Heilbronn.

Messerschmitt Bf 110F-4
Wnr.4709 C9+HR 8/NJG5 (Webelsflether Uhrendorf)

FF. Uffz. Josef Will + Erk.53143/9
Geb. 28.10.1919 in Breitenbach.

BF. Gefr. Anton Haider. Erk.53143/15
Geb. 24.05.1922 in Burglegenfeld.

Messerschmitt Bf 110F-4
Wnr.4808 C9+MS 8/NJG5 (Totenkopp/Beidenfleth)

FF. Obfw. Max Herbrich + Erk.55511/24
Geb. 02.12.1911 in Breslau.

I do have a photo of Alexander Wallrauch, but the copy is not that good, please contact me off-line as I have his brothers address.

Regards,

Melvin

[This message has been edited by Richard T Eger (edited 03 September 2001).]

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Frank Quast
Uffz Wallrauch NJG5
Tue Aug 7 21:31:17 2001


Hi, Melvin.

Amazing good news, thank you so much !!! Of course I'd like to get in contact with his brother. I tried to send you a email dirctly, but the email adress given above seems not to be correct. Please contact me via e-mail for further correspondence.

Regards,

Frank Quast

Readers please have a look at: http://www.Luftfahrtspuren.de

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Joss Leclercq
2./KG 66 loss in Lille on 13 february 1944
Fri Aug 10 17:46:01 2001


Hello to all,

On February the 13th 1944, a German bomber crashed on a building, rue Solferino in Lille, northern France, at 1019 PM. Local firemen were called and arrived quickly on the scene of crash. They were able to find a crewmember on the 1st floor, and another crewmember on the 2nd floor, but couldn’t rescue the rest of the crew.

Fw Hermann SIGG, Uffz Helmut KLEINE and Uffz Hans MEYER, all from 2./KG 66 were buried in the following days in Haubourdin WW1 German cemetery, the date of death was given as 13 February 1944. Gefreiter Günther SITTIG was also buried there, date given as the 15 february 1944. I presume he must have been one of the two airmen rescued by the french firemen, but that he died of his wounds.
I know that I Gruppe KG 66 was flying either Dornier Do-217, Junkers Ju-88s and Ju-188s, and was based in Montdidier.

I’d be very happy to get any detail about this crew, the mission they were flying and the plane in which they crashed (WNr and code).

Another interesting detail in this story is a written request submitted by the Lille firemen brigade : In return for having rescued 2 German airmen, they asked if 2 local firemen still in Prisoner of War camps could be liberated. I don’t know the result of this request, but I know that similar “exchanges” have been done in northern France in WW2.
Thanks in advance for your help.

Joss

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Melvin Brown
Re: 2./KG 66 loss in Lille on 13 february 1944
Sat Aug 11 01:13:06 2001


Hello Joss,

The information I have regarding this loss comes from the Verlustmeldung (WASt report) I.KG66.

13.02.1944, 22.21 hours in the centre of Lille, crashed Junkers Ju 188E-1. Wnr.260246 Z6 + AK
This aircraft crashed on return flight from a mission to London. Cause; damage to rudder inflicted by Flak!

FF. Fw. Hermann Sigg + Erk.55511/251 Born 22.06.1918.
B. Uffz. Helmut Kleine + Erk.55511/238 Born 23.09.1921.
Bf. Ogfr. Hartwig Berndt Erk.55511/232 Born 21.08.1921.
Bs. Uffz. Hans Meyer + Erk.55511/243 Born 06.08.1920.
TB. Gfr. Guenter Sittig + Erk.3/Fl.Ausb.Rgt.82 Nr.2831
Born 01.09.1924. (Tech-Beobachter)

Hope this info is useful for your research.

Regards,

Melvin.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Marcel van Heijkop
Some additions
Sat Aug 11 14:33:16 2001


Hi Joss and Melvin,

As I'm currently working on what one day hopefully will be the unit history of I/KG66, the Luftwaffe's Pathfinder unit, I found your postings naturally very interesting!

Joss, great story, thanks a lot for the details with the firemen surrounding this crash, these stories were unknown to me. (Great for my book.)

For both of you, here are some additions to this crash:

BTW: My losses list of I/KG66 was made in the '70's by a former member of the unit, using the WaSt documents as his source.

Addition 1) All details as mentioned by Melvin are correct, however for "damage to rudder" read "Vermutlich durch Verklemmung des Hoehenruders infolge Flakbeschuss abgestuerzt" . This means cause of crash likely jamming of the ELEVATOR (horizontal/longitudinal controls)caused by Flak. Flying with a jammed rudder (yaw control)is not such a big thing for an airplane, problems with your longitudinal control however sure is!!

Addition 2)Melvin, my source (using the WaSt)states the Bordfunker Ogfr Hartwig Berndt also as "gefallen" (dead). Maybe he also died later of his wounds? (Another explanation of course is that either my or your source made a mistake/typo in writing the info from the WaSt down. Question: Did you go to the WaSt yourself?)

Addition 3) TB means "Truhe" Beobachter. The Ju 188's of the 2./KG66 used captured British GEE equipment (German codename "Truhe") and maps from shot down British bombers in order to mark targets over Britain. For this purpose a specially trained fifth crewmember, the Truhe Beobachter, flew with the normal crew.

Addition 4) London was indeed the target. This must have been a bad trip for the Gruppe as another aircraft (Ju 88S-1 Z6+HH, W.Nr.140606) of the first Staffel was also lost this night near London. "Vermutlich durch Nachtjaeger am Ostrand von London nach 20.53 Uhr abgeschossen". The crew were:

FF Uffz Herbert Ehling (born 7-11-1921) Killed
BO Fw Joseph Weikert (born 14-10-1919) Killed
BF Uffz Werner Niedack (born 4-1-1920) Wounded/POW

Addition 5) To give a better understanding of I/KG66, the pathfinder Gruppe, here is some additional info:

I/KG66 at this time (Unternehmen Steinbock, 1944) was organised in 5 Staffeln. Each Staffel had its own navigational device (Verfahren) to locate the target and mark it with flares or groundmarkers (except the 4th Staffel, which was the Ergaenzungs- or training Staffel).It was hoped that, by combining planes and equipment of all the different Staffeln for a mission, at least one plane or navigational device would get through in case of jamming of the other devices/shooting down of some planes.

1./KG66: Ju 88S-1 with the Y-Verfahren
2./KG66: Ju 188E with the Truhe/GEE Verfahren
3./KG66: Ju 88/188? The still mysterious "Horch- and Stoerstaffel, which used special equipment to listen to British frequencies and if necessary, jam them. Moved later to 6./FAGr 123.
4./KG66: Ju 188/88 Ergaenzungsstaffel
5./KG66: Ju 88S-1 with EGON-Verfahren. Later became the 3./KG66.

Hope this is of some assistance,

Marcel

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Joss
Thanks to you both Melvin and Marcel !
Mon Aug 13 07:10:40 2001


Hello to you andthank you for the details.

If I can find any additional details about it from local archives here in Lille, I'll tell you.

About Haubourdin German WW1 cemetery, I must say that the WW2 graves were transfered soon after the end of the war, so they are not buried there anymore.

Thanks again, your informations were more than I expected !

Joss

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Norbert Neuser
Info wanted: Georg Hase (FF of NJG 5)
Mon Aug 20 12:25:14 2001


Hello, fellows,

I am looking for some reasonable informations about Georg Hase, presumed to be a pilot of NJG 5, KIA at unkonown date and reasons. His corpse possibly was buried in a private grave.
Every information is mostly welcome.

Thanks in advance for the efforts.

Best wishes

Norbert

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Melvin Brown
jager2uk@yahoo.ie
George HASE or HAASE?
Mon Aug 20 23:18:55 2001


Hello again Norbert,

While searching through my I/NJG5 WASt Verlustmeldung I came across the following:

Stendal SW-Rand des Flugplatzes. 27.03.1943. 2/NJG5
(ohne Fei ndeinwirkung)
Messerschmitt Bf 110F-2 Wnr.5088 C9 + BK

FF. Uffz. Karl-Heinz Franken. Erk.69010/60 Geb.01.04.1920 in Wengern/Ruhr.

BF. Gefr. Georg Haase. Erk.B65247/10 Geb.07.03.1920 in Frankfurt (Main)

Both of these crewmen now rest in peace in their respective birth places.
("In Erinnerung"

Regards,

Melvin

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Norbert Neuser
Georg Ha(a)se...
Mon Aug 20 23:35:19 2001


Hi, Melvin,

thanks for Your help, I appreciate it much.
So, it seems that I possibly had a wrong or incorrect information, because it now turns to that it was BF Gefr. Georg Haase.
Thanks again (nice to meet again here!)...

Best wishes

Norbert

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Ota Jírovec
Oblt. Heinz Schmidt - s/d by Hungarian fighters?
Tue Aug 21 08:04:22 2001


I have found in several book that Oblt. Heinz Schmidt (173 kills), Staffelkapitän of 6./JG 52, MIA 5.9.1943 near Markor was possibly shot down by Hungarian fighter. However I could not trace any details about it. The only (?) Hungarian fighter unit on the Eastern front, 5/I. vadászosztály "Puma" led by örgy Aladar Heppes celebrated its 50th kill on the day of Schmidt´s death (scored by Hdgy. Lajos Toth, one of the Hungarian leading aces-to-be), but I could not find any mention of shooting down Luftwaffe Bf 109 by error. My questions are:
1) does anyone know more details about Heinz Schmidt´s death from Luftwaffe sources?
2) are there any Hungarian records about such a type of accident?
3) does anybody know Soviet claims for shooting down Bf 109 on 5.9.1943 in the southern sector of Eastern front?

I would appreciate any possible help. Many thanks in advance.

Ota

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Jan Bobek
janbobek@email.cz
KIA details
Wed Aug 22 16:29:41 2001


Hi,

there are several ways how to get detailed records related to death of German airman. So far I used one (Bundesarchiv Aachen - Personalakte), however WASt Deutsche Dienststelle is keeping these records as well (I am communicating with them, but not because of this reason).

If you will be lucky, you will get detailed report (couple of pages - standard document) of the unhappy event (like I did in case of death of H. Grollmuss).

However these records are not always preserved - in many cases are lost. But lets not be pesimistic.

If you want to spent money in this way, you are free to contact me off-board.

regards

Jan

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Ota Jírovec
Heinz Schmidt - many thanks to you all
Thu Aug 23 08:20:24 2001


I would like to thank you all for your interesting postings - perhaps we will find out more details in the new book by Bernd Barbas.

Jan, also thanks for your offer concerning the Bundes-archiv, however I am a student with somewhat limited funds so perhaps I´ll wait till the new book on II./JG 52 appears.

Ota

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Leo Raida
Unnamed Airmans Graves
Fri Oct 19 15:00:17 2001


The Erkennungsmarken 69646/4 and 69644/37 relate to unnamed graves in the UK.
I am unable to get any help from the WASt, can anyone put names to these numbers, I think they are possibly from KG2.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Melvin Brown
EM numbers!!
Sat Oct 20 18:01:45 2001


Dear Leo,

Checked my WASt Verlustmeldung that I have for the period 1943 - 1944, but was unable to find the exact EM numbers.
But the numbers you posted are definately KG2, unfortunately I do not have the WASt returns for 1940, 41, and 42 the answer to you problem probably can be found here.

Incidently, I am puzzled by your name, but is it a coincidence that you have the same name as Obfw. Leo Raida,
Bordfunker of Me 410A-1 Wnr.0238, KIA on the 13.07.43.
Is there a connection here??

Regards,

Melvin.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

tomcat (Bernd Müller)
Re: Unnamed Airmans Graves
Fri Oct 19 15:55:38 2001


hello,

if wast could not helps, did you take the chance to ask "volksbund deutsche kriegsgräberfürsorge" (wargrave commission, www.volksbund.de (http://www.volksbund.de)) or german red cross search service ("suchdienst", over www.drk.de (http://www.drk.de)) ?

maybe they have documents the wast has not (?).

regards, tomcat

[This message has been edited by Richard T Eger (edited 21 November 2001).]

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

John Manrho
No EM info at VDK or DRK
Fri Oct 19 17:40:18 2001


The offices of the VDK or DRK-Suchdienst do not hold the EM-lists. They are at Berlin. What I don't understand is that the WASt couldn't help. Did they not have the lists or didn't they want to help?. Please consider that there are thousands of graves with known EM-Numbers of which the dead could not be indentified. A huge number of EM Lists did not survive the war. Mainly SS though.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

tomcat
EM lists
Fri Oct 19 22:10:50 2001


hello,

seems difficult, if the wast has no lists with these numbers.
there is just one more idea, to ask at eric mombeeks forum, the homepage is www.multimania.com/mombeek (http://www.multimania.com/mombeek) .
mr. mombeek is very engaged in helping search on men kia or mia.

regards, tomcat

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

B.Leo
Uffz Karl Lang, Bordfunker, II/NJG5
Thu Oct 25 10:53:59 2001


Hello..
Does any one know any thing about Uffz Karl Lang.I now that He started His service as an Bordfunker in I/NJG 3, 4.10.1942.Maybee He was KIA 3.1.1944,When He was in 6 Staffeln/NJG 5.I am grateful for any info about Him..

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Melvin Brown
Uffz. Karl Lang
Thu Oct 25 23:16:18 2001


Dear B. Leo,

The only info that I have comes from the WASt Verlustmeldung II/NJG5;

03.01.1944 6.Staffel. Junkers Ju 88 Wnr.750272 KI + IN
Crashed 12km S of Paderborn, near Bilkenthal, reason not stated.

FF. Lt. Hartmut Weiss + Erk.60936/69
Born. 22.01.1921 in Offenburg.

BF. Uffz. Karl Lang + Erk.60936/82
Born. 21.04.1921 in Muensingen / Wuerttemberg.

Hope this helps,

Regards,

Melvin.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

B.Leo
Bordfunker Karl Lang.
Fri Oct 26 10:19:07 2001


Thank You Melvin for Your info,No I now a little bot more about Karl Lang..Best Regards Björn

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

tomcat
data of karl lang
Sat Oct 27 02:59:26 2001


oops,

just did some research at the wargrave commission (search engine of vdk, volksbund), and checked your data there too.
they have documented the graves of 628 men kia or mia called "karl lang", but no one with the date of birth 21.4.1921 or date of being killed or missed 3.1.1944 there - what should be, when mr. lang was killed near paderborn. can not explain this, think vdk is working with the wast normally.

maybe, this info is not so helpful, but perhaps you can check the data again ?

regards, tomcat

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Melvin Brown
Karl Lang Burial.
Sat Oct 27 10:36:39 2001


Dear Tomkat,

Re; Grave of Uffz. Katl Lang!
I have checked the WASt report again which states that Karl was buried in the Gemeindefriedhof Muensingen, which is the cemetery in his home town.
All of these types of burials are not listed with the VDK, so you can imagine that there are thousands of names of the fallen not listed in German Military Cemetery registers.

Regards,

Melvin Brown.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

tomcat
VDK
Tue Oct 30 11:35:32 2001


Thank you, Melvin,

learned something new, which explains some cases, where I didnt found what for I was looking.

Regards, tomcat