Wehrmachtsauskunftstelle fur Kriegeverluste und Kriegsgefangene (WASt) - 3

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Ian Le Sueur
Luftwaffe Losses 12&13 Feb 44
Fri Nov 2 20:29:28 2001


Has anyone got details of a Do217 or similar shot down near Gael on the 12th Feb 1944 by 263 Sqn.

Also a Me109F over Chartres on the 13th Feb again by 263 Sqn during Rodeo 82.

Thanks

Ian

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Melvin Brown
jager2uk@yahoo.ie
Do 217 Loss.
Fri Nov 2 22:59:28 2001


Dear Ian,

Found the following info in Ulf Balke's "Der Luftkrieg in Europa", operational history of KG2. I have also added a few extra details from the WASt Verlustmeldung;

12.02.1944. Do 217 M-1 Wnr.26258 U5 + GL 3/KG2
Crashed near Gael, presumed shot down by S/L Warnes of No.263 Sqdn?

NO DETAILS ON THE PILOT< OBSERVER< RADIO OPERATOR.

BS. Uffz. Hans Pakulla. (Wounded)
Born.02.03.1923 in Peine.
FW.(Fl.Waffenwart) Uffz. Bruno Fiedler. +
Born.20.05.1915 in Rochlitz.
FM.(Flzg.Mechaniker) Uffz. Josef Thiel. (Wounded)
Born.06.11.1918 in Freudenthal.

*Uffz.Fiedler originally buried in the Kriegerfriedhof Vannes. Row 6 Grave number 5.

Hope this helps!

Regards,

Melvin.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Ian Le Sueur
Do17
Sat Nov 3 09:18:46 2001


Thanks Melwin

According to the book Typhoon attack 6 prachutes were seen to exit the aircraft. I'm a little bit vague when it comes to Luftwaffe aircraft, what would be the normal crew of a Do17?

Ian

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Melvin Brown
Do 314
Sat Nov 3 11:12:22 2001


Dear Ian,

Crew of most German twin engined aircraft is 4

Pilot, Observer, Radio-Op, Gunner.

On your Do 217 they had two extra men from the ground crew!!!

Melvin.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Ian Le Sueur
Do217
Sun Nov 4 10:54:50 2001


Thanks for your help Melvin it's appreciated.

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Joss
crash in Wavrin, northern France, 28/29 June 1944
Sun Nov 4 19:49:44 2001


Hello to all readers on this board,

During the night 28/29 June 1944, a German twin-engined aircraf crashed at 0:30 AM on the territory of the village of Wavrin, 10 km West of Lille, in northern France. She crashed close to a railway line, and set fire to a house.
The crewmembers (number unknown) bailed out and all survived. They were taken to Lille for treatment for their wounds.

Can someone give me details about this crew, the unit, the plane, the mission ? I’m just wondering whether it could be a night-fighter, or a bomber.

Thanks in anticipation.

Joss

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

John Manrho
Bf 110G-4 of I./NJG 3
Sun Nov 4 21:18:19 2001


28/29.6.1944, Bf 110G-4, Wnr. 730226, 3./NJG 3.
Crash west of Lille, crew to Lazerett Malette/Lille.
Uffz. Heinz Krause, wounded
Ofw. Kurt Ulrich, wounded, died 31.8.44
Ogfr. Bernhard Koch, wounded.
All three baled out after Luftkampf.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Melvin Brown
More details on crew.
Sun Nov 4 22:45:55 2001


Hi Joss & John,

A couple of other details from WASt report;

Uffz. Heinz Krause. Erk.69/53603. Born. 15.04.1923 in Donnerau.

Obgefr. Bernhard Koch. Erk.71/53603. Born. 09.04.1922 in Unterthal.

Obfw. Kurt Ulrich. Erk.---------- Born. 01.09.1915.

Regards,

Melvin

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

richard.k
June 28/29,1944
Mon Nov 5 00:58:03 2001


A number of RCAF aircraft attacked the railyards at Metz. They claimed to shoot down a unidentified twin engine aircraft and a FW-190. There was another 11 combats with no conclusive results.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Joss
Thanks !
Mon Nov 5 17:24:35 2001


Thanks to you both, John, Melvin and Richard.

Another brick in the wall.

I'm puzzled by the name Malette for the hospital in Lille.
I think it should be Calmette, still extent today, and indeed not too far from the crash site.

Is it known whether the death of Obw ULRICH was a consequence of this crash ?

Thanks again,

Cheers

Joss

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Aurélien Guénec
German and British archives
Fri Dec 14 14:44:31 2001


Could somebody tell me where I have to go to consult the air victories claims of RAF and Luftwaffe pilots?
Thanks for any answer
Aurélien Guénec

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Sean Michael Leeman Master Blaster
Luftwaffe victory claims
Fri Dec 14 16:22:33 2001


For the Luftwaffe you may have some luck with WASt in Berlin, or Bundesarchiv in Aachen. Good luck! Screamin'

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Aurélien
Thanks a lot! (n/t)
Sat Dec 15 06:52:20 2001

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Olof Anjou
Access to German archives of killed Luftwaffe pilots
Sat Dec 15 17:20:52 2001


Hello,
I would like to know if and how one could get information from German archives abt. Luftwaffe losses. (In my case, 1945 and with incomplete name of pilot but probable day and unit)

Many thanks in advance!

Olof

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Peter Teunissen
peterteun@hotmail.com
sources
Thu Dec 20 20:56:41 2001


Try the following:

Gemeinschaft der Jagdflieger
Suchdienstzentrale-Historisches Archiv
Krahwinkeler Strasse 34A
53797 LOHMAR

Luftwaffenmuseum der Bundeswehr
Kladower Damm 182-188
D-14089 BERLIN

Militärgeschichtliches Forschungsamt
Zeppelinstrasse 127/128
D-14471 POTSDAM

Wehrmacht Auskunftstelle
Eichborndamm 179
D-13403 BERLIN

Bundesarchiv
Abteigarten 6
52076 AACHEN


That should do it.

Best regards,

Peter

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Joss
Jagdwaffe losses 31 august 1943
Thu Jan 17 16:48:21 2002


Hello to all,
On 31 August 1943, between 08:00 AM and 08:30 AM, a German single-engine fighter crashed in the village of Wavrin, west of Lille. He was shot down in combat, and it seems the pilot attempted a forced-landing, but bounced on the ground, and came to a very abrupt stop when hitting a concrete water tank in a paddock. The engine was thrown away clear of its mounting and set fire a small wooden house nearby. The pilot was found lifeless in the cockpit.
At 08:15 AM, another German fighter crashed in a garden in Lomme, a northern suburb of Lille. Here again the pilot was reported by the French police as killed.
These two losses seem to be victims of the R.A.F. Spitfire escort of 387th Bomb Group B-26s, bombing at exactly the same time the Lille-Vendeville (Lille-Süd) airfield.
Leutnant Gert HECK (Fw-190A-5 WNr 57213 blue 6), of 10./JG 26, based in Lille-Vendeville, took off to defend his airfield, but was shot down by Spitfires and killed. Donald CALDWELL gives the crash site south of Lille. Local eyewitnesses state the plane was coming from the south when it crashed.
Fw-190A-6 530403, with 25% damage, was force-landed near Béthune by its unidentified 8./JG 26 pilot.
I’ve not been able to find if another Geschwader (most probably JG 2) lost pilots and planes that day, near Lille.
I’d welcome any details in order to sort out if Gert HECK was indeed the pilot which lost his life in Wavrin, as I presume.
Thanks in advance for your help.
Joss

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Melvin Brown
jager2uk@yahoo.ie
II/JG26 (WASt)
Thu Jan 17 17:46:38 2002


Dear Joss,

I can confirm your theory! From the WASt Verlustmeldung for the II/JG26 the following;

Bei Mavrin, südl Lille. 31.08.1943 Fw190A-5 Wnr.57213
Blaue +6 10/JG26

Oberfähnrich. Gert Heck. Erk.L59741/226 Geb.15.05.1921 in Diez/Lahn.

(Shot down in combat between Lille and Bethune, pilot originally buried in the Heldenfriedhof Abbeville.
Grave No.3

Hope this helps!

Melvin.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

ChrisGoss
Re: II/JG26 (WASt)
Thu Jan 17 18:20:24 2002


Joss: 7/JG 2 loss was over the Channel

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

David Pausey
losses 31-8-43
Fri Jan 18 21:01:46 2002


Hi Joss
As far as I know the Jagdwaffe lost two aircraft in the Lille area,the 10/JG26 one & 5(F)/123 lost Bf109G-6 wnr 14909 Fw Helmuth Schiller crashed Lille area after aircombat.I do not know if he was killed.
JG2 lost two aircraft in the Ile de Batz area.
Good luck.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Joss
Thanks to you three !
Sat Jan 19 09:20:29 2002


Good morning,

Thanks for your shared informations !

One track my friend Didier Potié and I searched in vain was in Haubourdin (near Lille) German cemetery, where many aircrews KIA in northern France were buried (not all of them of course, there were other cemeteries, like Cambrai, Bergues, etc...), and we had no entry about Gert HECK. Strange that he was buried so far in Abbeville, while his Staffel was based in Lille-Vendeville, and Haubourdin cemetery is less than 10 km from the actual crash site !
I was always puzzled by the engine-plate (recovered by a then teenager) I've never seen them, I was just shown photostat copies, and my friend Didier deduced they were from a Bf-109F, an idea I never totally agreed with.
It could be possible that Fw Helmut SCHILLER is actually the pilot that crashed in Lomme, a now suburb of Lille (the two towns were "fusionned" about two years ago). One police report states the pilot was killed, but there's no further details.
And the two JG 2 losses that day were in Britanny, so very far from Lille area.
So I thank you very much again for your help.

Joss Leclercq, France

[Richard T Eger]

From within a thread on 12 O'Clock High!:

Larry deZeng
Re: Request for clarification
Thu Feb 21 14:19:29 2002
205.188.199.31

Richard -

BA-ZNS is Bundesarchiv-Zentralnachweissstelle and it's one and the same as BA-Aachen, BA-Kornelimünster and BA-ZNS Kornelimünster bei Aachen.

BA-ZNS has a relationship with WASt, but one of the German users of this Board would be better able to outline this relationship than me. It's kind of complicated. Basically, the German authorities prefer that inquiries be first directed to WASt rather than BA-ZNS. It's sort of the first stop before contacting other agencies.

The Volksbund Deutsche Kriegsgräber-Fürsorge (German War Graves Commission) is strictly concerned with military cemeteries and has little connection to the other two, if any.

The Krankenbuchlager (Medical Records Repository) in Berlin holds all World War II German medical records. If a Luftwaffe flier was shot down, injured and hospitalized, for example, the medical records are here. These records also give details on his unit, circumstances leading to the wounds and other information of interest.

HTH,
(Larry)

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Richard T Eger
BA-Aachen
Fri Feb 22 02:56:27 2002
162.33.235.140

Dear Larry,

Thank you for that clarification.

...

Regards,
Richard

[This message has been edited by Richard T Eger (edited 22 March 2002).]