Luftwaffe Museums in Germany - 6

[Richard T Eger]

From within a thread on 12 O'Clock High!:

Stanislav Hruby
Photos of engines.
Wed Nov 14 08:55:14 2001


Hello Ray!
For some interesting photos see this: http://isweb23.infoseek.co.jp/art/tobanai/photo-room.htm
Some drawings I saw in Polish publications for the Bf 110 and Bf 109.
My best regards, Standa

[Richard T Eger]

Standa's note sounded interesting, so I took a look at the site mentioned. While in Japanese, the photos are really oustanding. All are in color and, except for some miscellaneous engine parts at the end, all can be viewed in a crisp, large size. I have no idea what the name of the site is, nor who is the webmaster. Regardless, this is a treasure.

The toughie, since the site is in Japanese, was to identify where these aircraft and engines were. Thanks primarily to Mikael Olrog's Preserved Axis Aircraft site, I was able to do pretty well on the identifications. To make it easier for the reader, I'll present the information in a beginning to end manner as laid out on the site. This means hitting the major subject icons top row left to right, next row left to right, etc. Same with the thumbnail photos that each icon leads to.

Me 262A-1a, WN 500071, white 3, Deustches Museum, Munich, 32 photos
Me 262A-2a, WN 112372, red X, RAFM Cosford, England, 2 photos

Fw 190D9, WN 601088, <1+~, Air Force Museum, Dayton, Ohio, 34 photos
Fw 190D13/R11, WN 836017, yellow 10, Champlin Fighter Museum, Arizona, 34 photos

BMW 003, 6 photos
BMW 132, Museo del Aire, Madrid, Spain, 4 photos
BMW 801, 4 photos
BMW 801, Deustches Museum, Munich, 5 photos

Jumo 213E, Champlin Fighter Museum, Arizona, 29 photos
Jumo 213a, 5 photos

DB 601, Deustches Museum, Munich, 8 photos
DB 601, 7 photos

DB 605, 5 photos
DB 610, RAFM Cosford, England, 5 photos
Jumo 222, Deustches Museum, Munich, 5 photos

German engine parts, 14 photos

Regards,
Richard

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Luigi Passarotto
German engines discovered
Fri Dec 21 21:36:29 2001


Hello,

was just reading through older newspapers and found a small
arcticle, dated 27. Oct. 2001.

They reported, that 11 engines (DB / BMW / Jumo)were dis-
covered in 2 meters under the earth on the south-part of
Rhein-Main-airport, formerly used by the USAF. The engines
are said to be in good conditions and the Luftwaffen-Museum
Berlin is going to get these.

Maybe some readers from the Frankfurt-area do have more
details.

Thank you.

Luigi P.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Jim
Re: German engines
Sat Dec 22 05:14:27 2001


The last information I read was that the German Defense Ministry was involved because the Luftwaffe had not offically declared these engines as "scrapped". So there was some debate about who would eventually get the engines--the museum or the Luftwaffe.

I have my doubts that any of them will eventually end up in flyable aircraft. However, I hope to be proven wrong. Also, the BMW radials were supposedly damaged during the recovery digging.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Mikael Olrog
Jumo 213 for Fw 190D-9 replica
Sat Dec 22 08:35:57 2001


Hi,

I've heard of two recent engine recoveries in Germany, one in Nürnberg (Jumo 213) and the 11 eleven engines you mentioned in Frankfurt (including DB 600, 601, 603, 605, Jumo 213 and one BMW 801). The find anyone would dream of doing...

The Nürnberg Jumo 213 is in private hands now and will be used in a flying replica of a Fw 190D-9. This replica is constructed with parts from the Flug-Werk company of course.

/Mikael

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Dave
Engines
Sat Dec 22 10:01:41 2001


The engines found at Frankfurt are now at Gatow after a court action awarded them to the museum ...... some were recovered complete with cowlings !

regards

Dave

[Richard T Eger]

The Virtual Aviation Museum website's strength is in its listing of aviation museums in Europe. While there is the occasional photo and minimal technical and historical detail, these are not the site's strenghts. The address of the site is:

http://www.luftfahrtmuseum.com/htmi/general/i.htm


Sections of Luftwaffe interest:


<U>Aircraft types</U>

Listed by name, designer, and category, a broad, but light depth coverage is made of much of the world's aircraft output.


<U>References</U>

Currently, there is only a listing of magazines worldwide. The intent is to add sections on famous aviators and a dictionary of aviation terms.


<U>Museums in Europe</U>

Germany

<U>Albatros-Flugmuseum, Stuttgart</U>

Albatros L 73
Casa 1.131 E, D-EBZE

<U>Auto + Technik Museum, Sinsheim</U>

Bücker BÜ 181 Bestmann
CASA (HE111) 2. 111
DFS Weihe 50
Fieseler FI 156 Storch, D-EMWF
Focke Wulf FW 190 A-8
Hirth Grunau Baby II B, D-8055
Junkers JU 52/3M Tante Ju, Rot, "Berlin Tempelhof" (nachempfunden) , D-AQUI ??
Junkers JU 52/3M
Junkers JU 52/3M
Junkers Ju 88 A4
Junkers Ju 87 Stuka, WNr 1301643
Messerschmitt ME 109 G6

<U>BMW-Museum, München</U>

Klemm Kl 24a VIII, D-1638

<U>Bremen-Halle (Flughafen), Bremen</U>

Focke Wulf FW 44 Stieglitz, D-EHOO
Junkers W 33 "Bremen", D-1167

<U>Deutsches Museum, München</U>

Akaflieg Vampyr
Akaflieg Stuttgart Phönix
Arado AR 66 D
Bachem BA 349 Natter
Bayerische Flugzeugwerke BF 108 Taifun, D-IBFW
CASA (Bücker) BÜ 131 Jungmann
Dornier DO A Libelle II
Fieseler FI 103 V1
Fieseler FI 156 Storch
Focke Achgelis FA 330 Bachstelze
Focke Wulf FW 44 Stieglitz
Junkers A 50 Junior
Junkers F 13, D-366
Klemm KL 25 E
Messerschmitt M 17
Messerschmitt Bf 109 E-1 Emil
Messerschmitt ME 163 Komet
Messerschmitt ME 262 A1 Schwalbe
Stamer Lippisch Schulgleiter SG 38

<U>Deutsches Museum - Flugwerft, Schleissheim</U>

Akaflieg München Mü 10 Milan, D-1001
ASJA Sk 12 (Focke Wulf FW 44 Stieglitz)
Casa 2.111 (Heinkel He 111 H)
DFS Olympia Meise
DFS 230
Dornier Do 24 ATT
Focke Wulf FW 44 Stieglitz
Hirth Grunau Baby II B
Hütter G-4 Gövier III, D-6007
Messerschmitt BF 108 Taifun
Slingsby T 38 Grasshopper (Stamer Lippisch Schulgleiter SG 38)

<U>Deutsches Segelflugmuseum, Wasserkuppe / Gersfeld</U>

Akaflieg München Mü 13 D Atalante, D-6293
DFS Weihe 50
DFS Kranich II
FV Aachen FVA 10 B Rheinland, D-12-354 (ex BGA 1711)
Grunau G 9 Grunau 9 (ESG29)
Hirth-Seeger Gö 1 Wolf, N22431 / D-15-2
Hirth Gö 3 Minimoa, HB-282
Horten H III
Hütter H 17 B
Hütter G-4 Gövier III, 414, D-1084
Jacobs / DFS Olympia Meise, D-4679
Jacobs / DFS Rhönadler, Replika 1987 , D-G�nter Groenhoff
Jacobs / Schweyer / DFS Rhönsperber, D-6262
Jacobs / DFS Kranich III, D-1389
Jacobs / DFS Rhönbussard 46, D-Hesselberg
Lippisch RRG-Falke, HB-16 / D-FALKE
Riedel PR 2 Rhönbaby
Schneider Grunau Baby II b, D-1079 ex D-4303
Schneider-Rehberg SG 38
Schneider Grunau Baby III, D-8766
Schneider Grunau Baby III, D-4303
Schulz FS 3 Besenstiel
Stamer Lippisch Schulgleiter 38

<U>Deutsches Technikmuseum, Berlin</U>

Bücker Bü 181 C-2 Bestmann, 501659 / FR38 , RM+HE, VN787
DFS Meise 51, D-7504
Fieseler Fi 156 C3T Storch, 110062 , F3-20 / (ehem. D-ENTE)
Focke Achgelis Fa 330 A1 Bachstelze
Junkers Ju 52/3mte, 7196 , D-AZAW (D-2201)
Klemm Kl 25, 138 , F-PCDS (ehem. D-1611)
Messerschmitt Me 109 E-3, 1407 , "2" (Erla)
Messerschmitt Me 262 A-1a
Schneider Grunau Baby III
Schneider-Rehberg SG 38

<U>Flugausstellung Leo Junior, Hermeskeil</U>

Bücker BÜ 181 B-1 Bestmann, 25076, D-EBAM
CASA 352 L (Junkers Ju 52/3M Tante Ju), 37, D-CIAD (ex T.2B-127)
Ernst Heinkel AG He 162 A-2 Salamander / Volksjäger
Flugtechn. Arge. Stettin Landmann La. 11, 9, D-Y

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Bernd
Is there in Hannover (Germany) a Bf109 in a museum?
Mon Dec 31 19:36:16 2001


What kind of museum is it?

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Dave Brown
Air Museum
Mon Dec 31 19:53:20 2001


Bernd:

According to "Aircraft Museums and Collections of the World - Volume 3" by Bob Ogden, there is an air museum near Hannover. Apparently, this museum opened in November, 1992 and is just south of Hannover in Laatzen. Address: Ulmer Strasse2, W-3014 Laazen. Tele: 0511-8607215.

The museum does not just specialize in Bf109's; however according to the inventory it has a restored Messerschmitt Bf 109G-2 (recovered from the Mediterranean), and the fuselage section of a Bf109G(?).

Hope this info is of some value. Happy New Year - Dave

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Bernd
Thanks Dave..
Mon Dec 31 22:35:30 2001


happy new Year. Guten Rutsch!

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Christer Bergström
URL to the museum's website
Tue Jan 1 13:58:45 2002


I can recommend a visit at this musem, which has got a rich collection - including a preserved Bf 109 from II./JG 27, and the siderudder of Alfred Grislawski's Bf 109 from JG 50.

The museum has got a website of its own at:

http://www.luftfahrtmuseum-hannover.de/start.htm

Best wishes and a Happy New Year!

Christer Bergström

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

tomcat
hannover laatzen
Tue Jan 1 14:57:43 2002


hello,

the last "jaegerblatt" is just on my table - so its easy to give an overlook from their advertising there:

a montgolfiere balloon
an otto lilienthal show
some oldies from 1908-1918
a replika "spirit of st. louis"
a zeppelin lz 127
originals of bf 109 g-2, fw 190-a 8, spitfire mk 14, russian an2, a mig 15 and a f-104 from the 60th
a lot a "prop & jet" engines and air technics, some oldtimer cars and more

opened tuesday til sunday 10:00 til 17:00 - and worth a visit.

happy new year, tomcat

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Dave
Original ??
Wed Jan 2 11:30:10 2002


Hi

A bit misleading I think . The 190 fuselage is new build from Flugwerke I believe . Engine and parts like the cowlings , instruments are original .

regards

Dave

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Pierre Lessard
Photoreportage
Thu Jan 3 02:07:38 2002


A "photoscope" about the museum Bf-109G-2 appeared in the french magazine REPLIC in 1993 (no 21, mai 1993).

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Tomislav Haramincic
Excellent Ba349 documentary
Wed Jan 2 22:26:03 2002


Hallo!

Today I saw an excellent documentary about the Ba349 Natter on the german satelite chanel HR.
It contained many original photographic and cinematic material. They covered the production of the Natter by the SS workers, the test launches and even the one and only launch with a pilot (Gefr. Lothar Sieber). They visited the WW2 production site of the Natter - the old hangar/barn is still standing and is now being used as a storange by the ERIBA company (the same company which produced the Ba349 during the war).
The documentary also explained the fight around this project between the Luftwaffe and the SS.
Gen. Galland was for it, Reichs Rüstungsminister Speer was against it.

But the most interesting thing was that an resercher named Lommel has found the original launch pads that were build for the planned Ba349 operational launches. Three complete concrete launch pads (displaced in a triangle shape - each ~150m from each other) are located in a young forest, near the A8 autobahn, in the Stuttgart area. There is no evidence of actual launches from this site.
Another discovery was made in the Heuberg area where the test launches were made. On an ex-military gunnery range, with the help of the German Army, the genuine launch pad was dug up. The concrete plato was obviously blown up later after the war, but the foundations are still visible.
On 1. March 1945, gefr. Lothar Siebel made his first and only launch with the Ba349 from this pad. He was killed in this attempt because he wanted to control the take off manualy (the automatic launch system was disconected on his request).

So, another historic site has been discovered - the place where the first manned vertical rocket launch was made.

best regards,
Tomislav

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Rob
Re: Excellent Ba349 documentary
Wed Jan 2 22:53:21 2002


There is some controversy on this but didn't the Natter actually make 7 manned flights?

BTW - I saw a source listing the Ba 349's climb rate as 36,000 ft/min!!!

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Mikael Olrog
Luftwaffe museum recreates Me 262
Sat Feb 2 09:27:07 2002
213.89.103.197

Good news,

The Luftwaffe museum is not building a complete Me 262, but a cut airframe to show construction and equipment using the original fuselage bow they have in they're collection (see photo at www.axisaircraft.com (http://www.axisaircraft.com) the relics section. The staff will try to obtain as much original parts as possible. The project has started, but the completeness depends on how many original parts can be found. I don't know if they plan to assign a real W.Nr. to this recreation.

Anyone have more information or photos of this job?
/Mikael

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Albert Lambrecht
Luftwaffe "kamikaze unit"???
Wed Feb 20 22:15:29 2002
217.185.0.152

Hello, and thanks for the possibility to send an article or question. Well, yesterday I saw a short film on TV in which they shwoed pilots and aircraft used for kamikaze duties towarde the end of WWII. I do admit that I have so far not heard of a German Kamikaze unit. Everyone knows the Japanese kamikazes but is it really true? I have of course read of Hajo Hermann and his pilots who attacked allied bomber units by ramming into aircraft. Does anybody know more about that crazy idea? Where could I read more about it. I would welcome anybody who wishes to reply. Thank you, regards Albert Lambrecht

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Don Caldwell
SO-Maenner
Thu Feb 21 16:14:04 2002
204.136.184.34

I'm writing without references, but the only Luftwaffe "suicide" unit I know of were the 30-or-so "Selbstopfer-Maenner" (suicide men) attached to KG 200 in 1945. They were "expended" in attacks on the Russian Oder bridgeheads.

The two types of air-to-air missions frequently characterized as "Kamikaze" missions were not. (1)The surviving Sturmjaeger pilots resent being called "Rammjaeger", a term apparently invented by Walther Dahl. They used ramming attacks very rarely. (2) Schulungslehrgang Elbe, OTOH, was established specifically to ram US heavy bombers, but the survivors resent being called "Kamikaze". Great emphasis was placed on personal survial after ramming, and the number of pilots lost during the act of ramming on the unit's only mission (7 Apr 45) was apparently small.

HTH

Don

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Christer Bergström
Re: SO-Maenner
Thu Feb 21 16:29:57 2002
62.20.144.45

I can confirm what Don Caldwell wrote above.

There's an exhibition about these Selbstopfer-Männer at Luftfahrtmuseum Hannover-Laatzen in Hannover/Germany - see also:

http://www.luftfahrtmuseum-hannover.de/start.htm

Highly recommendable!

Best wishes

Christer Bergström

[Richard T Eger]

The www.paulnann.com (http://www.paulnann.com) Military Aviation Photo Gallery has photos of Luftwaffe aircraft in various museums around the world. The website address is:

http://www.paulnann.com/


The following is a list of aircraft by country, museum, and location. Numbers in parentheses are number of photos. All photos are in color.


USA

<U>Willow Grove NAS, Pennsylvania</U>

Me 262B-1a/U1, 110639 (1)

<U>Planes of Fame museum, Chino, California</U>

Mitsubishi J8M1 Shusui (Me 163), 403 (1)


England

<U>The Fighter Collection, G-AYSJ, Duxford, Cambridgeshire</U>

Bü 133C Jungmeister, LG+01 (1)

<U>Old Flying Machine Company, Duxford, Cambridgeshire</U>

Casa 1.131E (Bü 131) Jungmann, E3B-153/781-75 (2)
Casa 2.111B (He 111H-16), B2I-27 (1)

<U>Duxford, Cambridgeshire</U>

Bf-109G-10, 2 (1)

<U>RAF Museum, Hendon</U>

He 111H-23, NT+SL (1)
Bf 109E-3, 12 (1)
Bf 110G-4, D5+RL (1)

<U>Imperial War Museum</U>

Bf 109G-2/trop, 10639/6 (3)

<U>RAF Museum, Cosford RAF, Shropshire</U>

Me 262A-2a, 112373 (1)
Me 410A-1-U2, 420/430/3U+CC (1)


Scotland

<U>Museum of Flight, East Fortune, Lothian</U>

Me 163B-1a, 191659/15 (1)


Belgium

<U>Koninklijk Legermuseum, Brussels</U>

Bü 181B Bestmann, TP+CP (1)


Netherlands

<U>Militaire Luchtvaart Museum, Soesterberg</U>

Do 24T-3, X-24 (1)


Germany

<U>Deutsches Museum, Munich</U>

Ba 349 (1)
Casa 1.131E (Bü 131) Jungmann, E.3B-555 (1)
Fi 156C-3, A-96 (1)
Junkers A50ci Junior, D-2054 (1)
Junkers F.13fe, D-366 (1)
Messerschmitt M 17, D-779 (1)
Bf 109E-3, 2804 (1)
Me 163B-1a, 120370 (1)
Me 262A-1a, 500071/3 (4)

<U>Deutsches Museum Flugwerft, Schleissheim</U>

Bü 181 Bestmann, D-ECYV (2)
Casa 2.111B (He 111H-16) (1)
Do 24ATT, D-CATD (1)
Bf 109G-2 (Hispano HA.1109K.1L) (1)
Kaiser Kal (probably Grunau Baby), D-8362 (1)

<U>Auto und Technik Museum, Sinsheim</U>

Casa 2.111B (He 111H-16), 5J+GN (1)

<U>Junkers Museum, Dessau</U>

Ju 52/3mg4e, 6134/1Z-BY (1)

<U>Memmingen</U>

Bf 109G-2 (Hispano HA.1109K.1L) (1)

<U>Luftwaffe Museum, Gatow</U>

Me 163B-1a, 191904 (1)


Switzerland

<U>Verkehrshaus der Schweiz, Luzcern</U>

Bü 133C Jungmeister, U-060 (1)

<U>Museum der Schweizerischen Fliegertruppe, Dubendorf</U>

Bü 181B-1 Bestmann, A-251 (1)
Fi 156C-3, A-100 (1)
Bf 108B-2, A-209 (1)
Bf 109E-3, J-355 (1)


Poland

<U>Muzeum Lotnictwai Astronautyki, Krakow</U>

Bü 131B Jungmann, SP-AFO (1)
Me 209V1 (fuselage), D-INJR (1)


Russia

<U>Central Museum of the Great Patriotic War, Victory Park, Moscow</U>

Bf-109F (1)


Regards,
Richard