IWM microfilms of aircraft loss records of the Luftwaffe Gen.Qu.M. 6. Abt. - 8

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Tom Willis
Ju 52/3m W/Nr 6451 question??
Mon Jan 21 18:55:02 2002

Hi

This is ongoing from the previous discussion about the Stkz concerning the Ju 52/3m W/Nr 6451.

I can confirm that the Stkz DM+WV was part of a Production Block 7627 to 7652 (DM+WA/WZ).

I have the source for W/Nr 6451 as DM+WV from Nowarra but can anyone confirm this Stkz from the Gen.Qu.6 Abt loss records. (Up to this time my original lists are not complete).

My question is whether DM+WV is a typo error for DM+VW!!

In my Stkz records I have DM+VJ listed as a possible Ju 52 transport a/c listed from Allied 'Y' service intercepts dated for May 1944; travelling between Budapest & Bucharest.

The Ju 52/3m W/Nr 6451 was built before the introduction of the Stkz in Production Blocks so must have received it's Stkz when the a/c was assigned most likely to a Training Unit.

Does anyone else have any Stkz listings in the DM+V. series that might lead to an answer of the original 2nd line-unit that the Stkz was assigned to.

Kind regards
Tom

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Günther Ott
Re: Ju 52/3m W/Nr 6451 question??
Wed Jan 23 19:49:51 2002
212.211.87.3

Sorry to say, but W/Nr 6451 as DM+WV was just another of Nowarra's "errors" due to his lack of thorough research.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Tom Willis
Thanks Gunther; I did wonder but needed confirmation!!
Thu Jan 24 17:59:31 2002
62.31.64.2

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Dave Pawlikowski
1976 recovery / excavation - JG51's Friedrich Beckh
Wed Feb 6 00:55:46 2002
24.218.61.17

Hello everyone -

I received an e-mail to my site from a man who claims to have been part of the team that recovered Friedrich Beckh and his 109 in 1976.

" Hello,Dave.
Excuse, I do not know the English language. Translates the computer.
Therefore you badly understand me, and I badly understand you. Explain what
means MIA?
Disappeared without a message?
I live in city Waluiki, above which has died BECKH.

The plane has fallen in a bog and long years was in depth.

In 1976ãîäó I have taken part in excavation. The plane is very strongly
destroyed also most part of fragments and now are on 3 meter depths. Small
fragments of a body of the pilot without attributes of rotting also were
taken which at once were buried on a place of fall of the plane.

Is found "Flugauftrag" with a name of the pilot - " Major i. G............
Beckh ".

The eyewitness of fight is alive still. From his(its) words, Messerschmitt
there was one and left on east from prosecution four Mig - 3. Above city
it(he) was set fire and has fallen.

With the large respect I store(keep) the lifted historical relics. Very much
I want to learn(find out) a history of life Beckh, his(its) battle(dashing)
biography, destiny of his(its) family.

To you I shall be very grateful for any items of information on this man.

Ewgenij "

BELIVAN@rambler.ru

He is looking for inforamtion on this pilot. Mine was very limited.

Has Friedrich Bechk ever been confirmed as recovered? Has his surviving family been notified? What is a " Flugauftrag "?

Just looking to hopefully make sure the proper people get this information. Especially about his recovery, if it wasn't known about previously.

many thanks!!!

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

John Beaman
Beckh
Wed Feb 6 12:03:44 2002
216.136.45.130

The information I have is:

Bf 109F-4, WNr 13362, BECKH, Major Friedrich, 48 abscusse, Stab og JG 52. Flying wei§e 4 + MIA on 21-Jun-42, after notlandung due to Flak during Tiefangriff. He was awarded the RK. Sources Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #6)-Vol. 9; Fast, JG 52, IV, p.67 txt; Obermaier p 85, locationWaloizkij (E of Charkow).

I do not have my Obermaier handy but that should have other details.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Dave Pawlikowski
Has this excavation been known?
Wed Feb 6 13:05:45 2002
24.218.61.17

John, thanks for the additional information. All I had was the Obermaier Band 1 info.

Has this excavation been recorded outside of the then USSR? Or would have the ongoing Cold War mindset between the East and West in 1976 have stymied the exchange of information about the grave / final resting place of a lost pilot and aircraft?

Should the German War Graves commision or such be notified? I would like to let the parties, or even the family know of the fate of their family member.

[Richard T Eger]

From within a thread on 12 O'Clock High!:

Colin Fuller
Here is the information
Thu Feb 21 02:24:58 2002
203.27.91.25

Hi Frank

The inquiry relates to a Luftwaffe Pilot (Feldwebel)who flew a Junkers JU-88A-6 (3451) 4D+GL (his diary says 4D+OL). The Pilots Surname is Schönauer, and some documents have Peter and others Wilhelm as the Christian name. He was born 6 January 1918. He was with I Gruppe (I./KG30) His plane was shot down over England (Vale Acre Farm, Aldershot, Dorset 2.35am) on the night of 8/9 July 1941 by a Bristol Blenheim nightfighter. the crew baled out and he became a POW in Canada. I have a very interesting POW diary of his which I would like to give a copy to his next of kin (assuming he is no longer living), if I can track them down.

I found out the following information also:

The loss is reported in a document from the Generalquartiermeister.

Genst.Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (Ic) Nr 3780/41 g.Kdos, dated 11. July 1941

Lfd. Nr. 31 (That is loss numer 31 included in the list for this date, July 11.)

The loss itself is noted as occurring on July 9th, the unit is said to be I./K.G.30 (meaning the 1st Gruppe, not the 1st Staffel). It is noted as a loss during a Feindflug, location Birmingham, reason unknown (indicating that they never reported to the other aircraft in the unit that they were under attack from a nightfighter, or that they never knew what hit them).

Details of the aircraft as follows:

Ju 88A-6, Werkenummer 3451, Kennzeichen 4D+GL, listed as a 100% loss.

The crew consisted of:

Fw. Schönauer, Wilhelm (Pilot, MIA)
Uffz. Jahn, Otto (Observer, MIA)
Uffz. Dopper, Hermann (Wireless Operator, MIA)
Gefr. Safer, Rudolf (Gunner, MIA)

I do not have an idea where he was from, so his service records would be very useful to locate next of kin. So with a little bit of luck as you say, who knows...

Best wishes

Colin

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Dave McDonald
109 histories
Sun Feb 24 08:15:14 2002
203.96.111.202

Hi all

Am looking for some information on the following airframe wrecks that are stored in North America.

Anything on wk.nr.
3535
10276
10212 ....... This aircraft I have is being lost into the sea off Cherbourg , so I doubt could be one of the aircraft held by Warbird Recovery , Broomfield .....

TIA

Dave

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Anonymous
Re: 109 histories
Sun Feb 24 15:18:57 2002
209.237.193.86

Bf 109E-1 3535 Höhn, Uffz. Erich 4. JG 51 wei§e 2 + badge 15-Oct-40 POW after Luftkampf with 3 Spitfires and 14 Hurricanes. Kanal Ring, JG 51 loss list, p.43; Mason, p.448 txt; BoB, T&N, p.685 txt Owls Castle Farm, Lamberhurst 100% F

Bf 109F-4 10212 1.(F) 33 02-Sep-42 Crashed at sea due to engine trouble. Kanal Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #7)-Vol.11 near Cherbourg 100% F

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Fred
Ludwig Roth - Jg 26's Pilot
Sun Mar 17 13:02:45 2002
80.9.114.132

Hi,

I'm looking for informations about a Jg 26 german pilot LUDWIG ROTH, KIA on january the 9th 1943

Was he a new pilot of the Jg 26, did he have any claims, is he buried in france ?

Thanks !

Fred

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Jim P.
Re: Ludwig Roth - Jg 26's Pilot
Mon Mar 18 22:33:23 2002
209.237.197.63

Fw190A-4 2406 Roth, Uffz. Ludwig 5. JG 26 schwarze <3 + - 09-Jan-43 KIA in Luftkampf with Spitfire. Kanal Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #8)-Vol.13; Caldwell, JG 26 War Diary, II, p.15 Fl.Pl. Abbeville 100% F

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Fred
Re: Ludwig Roth - Jg 26's Pilot
Tue Mar 19 09:01:14 2002
62.106.10.133

Thanks Jim !!!!!

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

s.f.polyak
Ju 87 B-1 WNr. 5088
Sun Mar 17 18:54:37 2002
152.163.201.64

I am seeking information on the history of this airplane:

Ju 87 B-1 WNr. 5088

Thank you.

Steve

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Jim P.
Re: Ju 87 B-1 WNr. 5088
Mon Mar 18 22:31:16 2002
209.237.197.63

Ju 87B 5088 St.G. 77 28-May-41 Landing accident. Mittelmeer Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #3)-Vol.5 Fl.Pl. Malemes/Kreta 35% H

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

s.f.polyak
Thank You Jim
Tue Mar 19 01:53:35 2002
152.163.194.194

Jim:

Thank you once again! I very much appreciate the always generous sharing of your time and information from your archives.

Steve

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Emil O
JU 88
Wed Mar 20 20:16:09 2002
130.242.7.25

Hello.
I found the remainings of a JU 88 wreckage when I visited Iceland last summer. I found out that it was shot down the 24:th of april 1943.
Now I want to find out more about this particular aircraft and the crew abord - could someone help me or give me suggestions were to surch.
Sincerely Emil Olofsson

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Jim P.
Probably this machine
Wed Mar 20 22:16:45 2002
209.237.196.250

Ju 88D-5 430087 Brück, Ltn. Karl 1.(F) 120 wei§ C A6+CH 24-Apr-43 KIA, cause unknown. 2 others KIA, 1 MIA. Atlantik Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #9)-Vol.16 (Reykjavik) 100% F

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Chris Goss
Re: JU 88
Fri Mar 22 07:20:06 2002
212.159.165.237

This was Ju 88 D-5, 430087, A6+CH of 1(F)/120 Lt Karl Brueck, Fw Werner Bullerjahn & Fw Theodor Scholtyssek killed; Uffz Anton Mynarek POW. Crashed 1406 hrs at Seflavik aftre being shot down by 1/Lt J M McNulty & 2/Lt H R Stenmgle of 50th FS, 1334 hrs

[Richard T Eger]

From within a thread on 12 O'Clock High!:

Eduardo
Any clue
Fri Apr 19 21:42:39 2002
200.212.9.110

Any clue on how can I get the loss list of the KG 51?

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Jim P.
Well, currently...
Mon Apr 22 15:45:50 2002
64.223.199.2

losses for the Battle of Britain are available through several sources, but other losses can only be had by going through the German loss records available from either the Bundesarchiv or the Public Records Office in the U.K.

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Martin Gleeson
Dornier 18 W.Nr. 0810
Fri Mar 8 23:14:11 2002
159.134.165.243

Hallo,

Could anyone please tell me what variant or sub-type was Dornier 18 Werknummer 0810 ? This aircraft was lost on 15 September 1940. The Luftwaffe QM General loss returns do not give the above detail nor does it include the crew names, who were all rescued unhurt. Any information on the crew would also be very welcome.

Barry Rosch on page 282 in his fine book on Luftwaffe markings, etc. records the Werknummer as 818 and the varient as a D. Which Werknummer is correct ?

Is there a veterns association of former flying-boat aircrew or a source of information concerning the above that might help ?

Regards and thanks.
Martin Gleeson.

[Richard T Eger]

From further within the thread on TOCH!:

Martin Gleeson
Thanks George and Bjorn.
Sat Mar 9 12:03:36 2002
159.134.167.43

Very helpful information. The crew were not interned here in Ireland. Nor have I been able to find anything on this incident in the Irish Military Archives. If the crew were rescued one presumes this was done by another flying-boat ? Possibly of the same unit ?

I know nothing of the circumstances of this loss, except for the reference to a take-off accident. Did the Luftwaffe, in September 1940, pre-position small units of these aircraft at certain points in connection with various longer-range bomber missions ?

Just to exclude the other Werknummer I referred to in my earlier posting ( 818 ) does anyone know its fate ?

Thanks again.

Martin Gleeson.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Bjørn Hafsten
Do 18 W.Nr. 810
Sat Mar 9 14:20:21 2002
193.217.240.49

I'll eat my hat. Of course the W.Nr. 810 is a Weser-built aircraft. However, I have contradicting information from two different sources as to the loss of this aircraft:

1. Ob.d.L. Genst.Qu.6.Abt. Nr. 4316/40 g.Kdos. (IC) H.Qu. den 18. September 1940. Flugzeugunfälle und Verluste bei den Verbänden (IWM Ref.No. GER/MISC/MCR18, Reel No.2)
15.9.1940 3./406 F Südküste Irland. Absturz nach Start. Besatzung geborgen. Do 18 W.Nr. 810 K6+FL 100%.

2. Kriegstagebuch Gen.d.Lw.b.Ob.d.M./O.Qu. 1- 30 September 1940. (BA/MA):
17.9.1940 Betr. Flygzeugverluste:
Am 15.9. St. 3./406 Do 18 W.Nr. 810 Bruch 100%. SO-Küste vor England. Besatzung gerettet.

Well here you have two versions. Can anyone confirm??

[Richard T Eger]

From further within the thread on TOCH!:

Martin Gleeson
K6+DL or K6+FL ?
Sun Mar 10 00:58:52 2002
159.134.167.112

Thanks again to everyone. One question answered concerning the variant of this aircraft but others raised about the codes and the location where it was lost.

My main source for believing W.Nr. 810 was coded K6+FL was the Luftwaffe QM General loss returns in the Imperial War Museum. So where does DL come from ? Could that particular Dornier have been allocated a different individual letter at some time ?

Bjorn's second source for this Dornier loss refers to the SE coast of England. This seems to tie in with the basing of this Staffel in Holland as mentioned by Hans. Can anyone verify this ?

Regards,
Martin.

[Richard T Eger]

This is an administrative message to place this series of topics in correct order.

Regards,
Richard