IWM microfilms of aircraft loss records of the Luftwaffe Gen.Qu.M. 6. Abt. - 10

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Ota Jirovec
Ofw. Franz-Josef Zoufahl
Mon Aug 12 12:25:21 2002
146.102.34.167

Hello,

the above mentioned pilot, DK-G holder with 26 vics, was shot down as a member of 8./JG 51 on 24. 7. 1944 near Kauen. Does anybody know any details about his machine (such as version, Werknummer and tactical code) as well as cause of his loss? Many thanks in advance for any help.

Ota

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Jim P.
Re: Ofw. Franz-Josef Zoufahl
Mon Aug 12 22:13:46 2002
209.237.196.29

Bf 109G-6 165010 Zoufahl, Ofw. Franz-Josef 26 8. JG 51 schwarze 4 + | 24-Jul-44 Killed in Notlandung after Luftkampf. Overturned. Ru§land Ring, JG 51 loss list, p.53 Kauen 100% F

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Ota Jirovec
Jim, many thanks for your kind help (n/t)
Tue Aug 13 07:31:12 2002
62.177.90.113

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Alex Smart
Ju 88 losses 1941
Wed Aug 21 13:58:02 2002
195.92.194.16

hi ,
Has any one details of losses of Ju 88 aircraft on the 19th of May,1941 on the South West of England and English channel/
any details welcome including crew names.
Thanks in advance.
Alex.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Jim P.
Losses
Wed Aug 21 23:47:00 2002
209.237.193.57

For details I would suggest either the Foreman book or the 'Blitz:Then & Now' listed amongst the sources for the following:

Ju 88A-5 5232 Neudeck, Ltn. Werner 2. KüFlGr. 606 7T+FK 19-May-41 Killed in Notlandung due to fuel shortage. 1 other KIC, 1 injured. Kanal Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #3)-Vol.4; Foreman, 1941-The Turning Point, II, p.235 near Caen 95% F
Ju 88A-5 5219 KüFlGr. 606 19-May-41 Bauchlandung due to Luftkampf with enemy fighters. Atlantik Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #3)-Vol.4; Foreman, 1941-The Turning Point, II, p.235 Fl.Pl. Lannion 25% H
Ju 88A-5 8219 Beitzke, Hptm. Rolf 2. KüFlGr. 606 schwarz B 7T+BK 19-May-41 MIA with crew due to Flak while on sortie to Ireland. Atlantik Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #3)-Vol.4; Foreman, 1941-The Turning Point, II, p.235; Blitz, Then & Now, p.34 txt Off Falmouth 100% F
Ju 88A-5 8244 Habekost, Ltn. Ernst 7. KG 1 wei§ G V4+GR 19-May-41 KIA with crew due to Flak from paddle-driven minesweeper 'Princess Elizabeth'. Kanal Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #3)-Vol.4; Foreman, 1941-The Turning Point, II, p.238; The Blitz, Then & Now, p.35 txt Off Brackenbury Fort, Felixstowe 100% F
Ju 88A-5 5213 Hitschfeld, Oblt.z.S. Günther (B)/Nowack, Uffz. Paul (F) 1. KüFlGr. 606 wei§ A 7T+AH 19-May-41 KIA with crew when plane flew into hill while on sortie to Ireland. Atlantik Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #3)-Vol.4; Foreman, 1941-The Turning Point, II, p.235; The Blitz, Then & Now, p.34 txt Yelverton, Devon 100% F
Ju 88A-5 8228 Eiermann, Oblt. Helmut KüFlGr. 606 19-May-41 Killed in crash during Bauchlandung after Luftkampf. 1 other KIC, 2 injured. Atlantik Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #3)-Vol.4; Foreman, 1941-The Turning Point, II, p.235 Fl.Pl. Lannion 100% F

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Alex Smart
Ju 88
Thu Aug 22 19:17:27 2002
195.92.194.14

Hello Jim,

Thank you.
This will help me in my little search.
Thanks again.
Alex

[Richard T Eger]

For a discussion of KG 26 Ju 88 and Ju 188 losses in Norway in 1945, including Genst.Gen.Qu.6 loss data provided by Jim Perry, see the topic "Museums with Luftwaffe aircraft - 3" on the "Archives in Scandinavia" forum.

Regards,
Richard

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Jouni Rönkkö
Ar 240 tested in Finland?
Tue Sep 3 09:28:51 2002
195.156.203.49

I'm looking any information for Ar240V-6(?) which was
used at Petsamo in summer of 1943.

Thanks for advance
Jouni

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Graham Boak
This is a myth
Tue Sep 3 11:14:16 2002
195.50.81.249

It stems from a misunderstanding of the badge on the aircraft, showing a partial sun with Odin's ravens. This was assumed to be the badge of JG 5, but is the similar badge of the Luftwaffe's High Command specialist recce unit (How can you tell I'm away from my books? 3(F)100 comes to mind...)

The aircraft concerned were Ar 240A-01 and A-02 (long thought to be V5 and V6, but that is a myth too!) and the photos were actually taken near Karkhov. The two aircraft can be distinguished by their codes and the size of the badges.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Jim P.
As to what Graham stated:
Thu Sep 5 01:20:32 2002
209.237.193.89


Ar240 0011 Felleckner, Ofw. Heinz (Bf) 3.(F) 100 16-Feb-43 Injured in crash due to technical fault. Ru§land Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #8)-Vol.14 Poltawa-Seschtschinskaja 100% H

Ar240 0010 1.(F) 100 03-Aug-43 Notlandung due to technical failure. Ru§land Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #11)-Vol.20 Fl.Pl. Orscha-Süd 15% F

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Alain Godec
StG3 losses on 10 March 1943
Wed Sep 4 19:51:14 2002
194.158.104.34

Does anyone know the losses (aircraft and crews) of StG3 over Tunisia on 10 March 1943:

For the moment I have two Ju87 claimed by RAF 112 Sqn in the afternoon.

Thanks in advance

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Johan Hendrik Schuurman, Holland
10.03.1943
Wed Sep 4 21:01:32 2002
195.241.246.52

Dear Alain,
No losses Ju 87 on 10 March 1943.
II. and III.St.G.3 operating in Tunesia with the Ju 87D-3 trop. 11 days later, am 21.03.1943, 9./St.G.3, Airfield Mezzouna North, Ju 87D-3 trop, Wnr. 1006, 100%, Lt. Guenther Vollmer and Gefr. Karl Berwanger killed. Fighterattack.
Luftflotte 2: losses am 10.03.1943
KGRzbV. 600, Tunis, Bombs, Ju 52, Wnr. 1338, 60%
Nachr. Flugkommando Luftnachrichten Afrika, Tunis, Bombs, Ju 52, Wnr. 3174, 100%
Flieger Kompanie Luftnachrichten Regiment 2, Tunis, Bombs, Ju 52, Wnr. 7527, 100% and
KGrzbV. 1, Tunis, Bombs, Ju 52, Wnr. 3015, 100%.
Greetings,
Johan

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Alain Godec
10.03.43
Wed Sep 4 22:07:39 2002
194.158.104.36

Dear Johan,

Thank you but strange... !

In the official combat record/diary 112 Sqn claimed two Ju87 of III/StG3 that were escorted by JG77.
On the ground, the Free French witnessed two Ju87 going down.
So I would have expected "some confirmation".

Also in your records for 10.03.43, you do not have :
Lt Heinz Luedemann of 8/JG77 (III/JG77) who was shot down by 112 Sqn.
112 Sqn lost 6 aircraft and 4 pilots (the other 2 prisonners)

Cheers

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Jim P.
My Stuka data agrees with Johan's, and:
Thu Sep 5 01:24:57 2002
209.237.193.89

Bf 109G-2 10819 Lüdemann, Ltn. Heinz 5+ 8. JG 77 schwarze 1 + 10-Mar-43 KIA in Luftkampf with P-40. Tunisia Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #9)-Vol.15; Prien, JG 77, III, p.1471 North of Ksar Rhilane (Pl.Qu. 94844) 100% F

Another loss that may be significant to your research:

Bf 109G-2 10663 Schmitt, Fw. Werner 4.(H) 12 schwarze 2 + 10-Mar-43 MIA, cause unknown. Tunisia Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #9)-Vol.15 100% F

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Franek Grabowski
My Stuka data agrees with Johan's, and:
Thu Sep 5 15:05:11 2002
213.25.54.73

But there's also a problem of reliability of GQ6 reports, especially from Tunisia. Losses may be reported on other dates, this was the case of two II/KG30 Ju 88s downed on 1943.03.28.
Franek

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Alain Godec
Luft losses in March 1943
Wed Sep 11 08:53:57 2002
57.250.229.136

Dear Franek,

Thank you. I am inclined to agree with you.

However I was looking for 1 or 2 Ju87 of StG3 shot down on 10/03/43 near Ksar Rhilane as 112 Sqn claimed so but apparently only around 21/03/43 were some Ju87 shot down or destroyed on the ground.

I do not know where to look now as I do not have thot Luft losses list.

Cheers

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Franek Grabowski
Luft losses in March 1943
Sun Sep 15 17:08:27 2002
213.25.54.73

Well, I can't help you with that specific question either. This is a very hard question as the German records of the period are inaccurate and incomplete, the fighter pilots often overclaimed and the ground troops accounts are often unreliable. I do recall that on 20.04.1943 the Italian ground posts there reported several Spitfires downed while actually none was lost.
Best wishes
Franek

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

jonathan strickland (he's at it again)
Marseille Bf-109E-7
Mon Sep 9 01:42:37 2002
168.215.142.85

Are there any pictures or renderings of a 79/78 (no splotches) Bf-109E-7 flown by H-J Marseille. I'm under the imprsession he scores many kills flying Emils in 1941, but would like to learn more.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Dick Powers
'Rabe Anton' question?
Mon Sep 9 17:24:47 2002
63.150.97.2

I seem to recall several months ago that Rabe Anton noted that he will co-author a book on Marseille and his aircraft later this year. Perhaps his book can shed some light on this, and other, early Marseille aircraft.

How about it Rabe?

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Jim P.
Having talked to both Rabe and co-author...
Mon Sep 9 19:20:19 2002
64.223.199.2

John Beaman recently, I think its safe to say that they've not been able to verify any of Marseille's desert E's. Again, the best we seem to have is the rudder photo from the most recent bio (not Kurowski). There is another photo of a belly-landed E, possibly coded '6' that the author claims may be a Marseille bird, but the photo is of such poor quality, few details, if any other than the possible kennzeichen, can be discerned. And there's no actual way to connect this plane to Marseille other than the author's supposition. I have entered it in my database:

Bf 109E-7 5160 MARSEILLE, Ofhr. Hans-Joachim 3. JG 27 gelbe 6 + (?) 23-Apr-41 Injured in Bauchlandung after Luftkampf. Afrika Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #3)-Vol.4; Prien/Rodeike/Stemmer, Stab & I./JG 27, p.540; Wübbe, H.J. Marseille, p.136 foto near Tobruk 100% F

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Rabe Anton
Marseille Bf 109Es in North Africa
Mon Sep 9 20:52:35 2002
132.60.7.2

Dick Powers' memory of a publication is correct. Like many other endeavors of its kind, however, the research and manuscript are complete and at the publisher, but the work is presently best described as "under press."

Truth is that there is very little to add to Jim Perry and George Morrison's comments. The essentials are:

• The "flak hole" machine is only partially known; though a Bf 109E/Trop, it was finished in a Euro scheme appropriate to Unternehmen MARITA (early April 1941). Says something about the Luftwaffe's preparedness and state of mind for the pending North Africa adventure, doesn't it?!

• What John and I theorize was the successor to the above Emil was photo'd on Sicily during I./JG 27's great leap to North Africa. Another Trop in Euro scheme. It flopped down in the sand at the end of the transfer flight.

• The rear port one-fourth of a Marseille Emil from sometine in April is shown in the photo referred to by Jim and George (don't have the sources or citations to hand). It is almost certainly in Euro camo too.

• There's the very distant, indistinct photo of another belly flopped Emil said to be Marseille's also noted by Jim and George. No reference to hand, but the image remains undocumented, except by the author.

One very important fact surfaced during my research into Marseille's North African career, and that is the astonishing amount of leave time that M enjoyed during the middle of 1941. This leave cuts down the number of probable Emils he could have flown while complicating their identification. It also helps explain why M's aerial victories were relatively, repeat, relatively, few during 1941.

For the modeling crowd, the question of the timing of Luftwaffe desert schemes has never really been answered. Ken Merrick will almost certainly do so in his two volume work now under press at Chevron (formerly Classic Publications). Until Ken's authoritative statement comes along, my own research points to the belated application of tropical camouflage to JG 27 aircraft not earlier than May 1941. The first tropical schemes may well have utilized Italian paints; this is often suggested and seems to fit both the Luftwaffe's general unpreparedness for desert warfare and the establishment of major air depots in Italy.
At present, I'm inclined to believe that a few ersatz repaints may have been done in the field, but not many; the majority of Emils in desert schemes exhibit a relatively uniform scheme of large mottles pointing to one common source, a depot. I further believe it likely that such "mottled Emils" were prepared in Italy and sent to North Africa as replacement or exchange aircraft, possibly not before mid-summer 1941.

RA

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Alex Smart
Ju 88 losses 1941
Wed Aug 21 13:58:02 2002
195.92.194.16

hi ,
Has any one details of losses of Ju 88 aircraft on the 19th of May,1941 on the South West of England and English channel/
any details welcome including crew names.
Thanks in advance.
Alex.

[Richard T Eger]

From further within the thread on TOCH!:

Johan Hendrik Schuurman
Ju 88
Thu Aug 22 20:30:44 2002
195.241.245.12

Hello Alex,
Luftflotte 3 meldet:
19.05.1941, III./KG 1, Feindflug, Kanal, Ursache unbekannt.
Ju 88A-5, 8244, V4+GR, 100% verlust
Ltn. Ernst Habekost, Ff. tot
Uffz. Eugen Rotsinger, Bf. tot
Uffz. Jakob Losen, Bo. tot
Uffz. Herbert Lindemann, Bf. tot

Verluste KFlGr 606: Flugplatz Lannion
Ju 88A-5, 5213, 7T+AH, 100%
Ju 88A-5, 8219, 7T+HK, 100%

Verluste I./SKG 210 ueber Lowestoft
Bf 110E-1, 3483, S9+BL, 100%
Source: Film 3 Imp.War Museum, Luftwaffe-losses

Greetings from Johan
j.h.schuurman@tiscali.nl

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Alex Smart
Ju88 HELP
Thu Aug 22 23:44:19 2002
195.92.168.167

Hello Jim and Johan,

Thank you for responding to my question on the Ju88.
However I now have a problem....

My initial information re Ju88 WkNr:8219 was from a document from the Cornish Aviation Society which is detailed as follows.

Aircraft crashes in WWII incorporating Constabulary War Diaries.
19.5.41: Ju88 (8219) 7T+AK crashed in the sea off Falmouth.

Jim has the aircraft as 7T+BK and has quoted several references while Johan has quoted the aircraft as 7T+HK.

You now see the problem.
Which is it ? 7T+AK;7T+BK or 7T+HK ?

HHHHHHHHheeeeeeeeeeellllllllpppppp.
Alex

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Johan Hendrik Schuurman/Holland
Ju 88, WNr. 8219
Sat Aug 24 19:31:09 2002
195.240.115.77

Hello Alex,
Correct is 7T+BK
Crewmembers are:
Hptm. Rolf Beitzke, Ff. vm. (= mia)
Uffz. Erwin Mayer, Bf. vm.
Uffz. Max Adan, Bm. vm.
Fw. Richard Pape, Bs. tot (= kia)

Ju 88A-5, 5213, 7T+AH,100%
Uffz. Paul Nowacki, Ff. tot
Obltn. Guenther Hitschfeld, Bo. tot
and two others kia

Ju 88A-5, 8228, 100%
Bauchlandung auf Lannion nach Luftkampf
Obltn. Helmut Eierman, Ff. tot

Ju 88A-5, 5219, 25%
Bauchlandung auf Lannion nach Luftkampf mit Jaegern

Ju 88A-5, 5232, 95%
Notlandung bei Caen infolge Brennstoffmangel
Ltn. Werner Neudeck, Ff. tot

KFl.Gr. 606 losses on 19.05.1941, Film 3 Imp. War Museum
Greetings,
Johan

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Alex Smart
7T+BK
Sat Aug 24 22:46:57 2002
195.92.168.167

Thank you,
Cannot understand how the local's could have gotten it wrong.
But thanks all the same everyone.
Alex

[Richard T Eger]

This is an administrative message to place this series of topics in correct order.

Regards,
Richard