Luftwaffe Planquadrate map system - 3

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Bill Norman
Planquadraten
Wed Oct 2 14:56:32 2002
195.93.50.12

In the first years of the war (perhaps until 1941)did Küstenfliegergruppen used Marine grid charts whereas the Luftwaffe had their own system? Did Kustenfliegergruppen use the Luftwaffe grids from c.1941? Help appreciated.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Manfred Winkler
Re: Planquadraten
Wed Oct 2 15:40:51 2002
213.11.20.101

Hi Bill,

There is some good info about the german grid system on Andreas Brekken's site.
go to

http://www.stormbirds.com/eagles/

and then select the topic "Gradnetzmeldeverfahren
"

HTH
cheers,
Manfred

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Bill Norman
Planquadraten
Wed Oct 2 16:19:26 2002
195.93.49.8

Thanks, Manfred. I am familiar with Brekken's interesting and informative article - but, unfortunately,it does not address my current problem. BN

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Philippe DM
Plaquadraten
Thu Oct 3 06:55:58 2002
80.200.248.194

Do any of you gentleman know where to find a copy of such a fighter "planquadraten" map?

I do have Dierich and Ries book, collected on a second hand market, but unfortunately without the map... (as the book was wrapped, I could not see its content...)

Thanks for pointing me out!

Very best regards,

Philippe

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Bill Norman
Re: Plaquadraten
Thu Oct 3 13:04:31 2002
195.93.49.9

I got my 'bomber' planquadraten map from Bundesarchiv, Frieburg. Try there - you could be lucky!

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Philippe DM
Planquadraten
Thu Oct 3 16:05:34 2002
80.200.248.195

Thanks Bill,

It is worth a try,

Best regards,

Philippe

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

West
Maps
Fri Oct 4 04:33:40 2002
152.163.189.99

Hi,

I certainly wouldn't encourage anyone to spend a lot of money, but perhaps someone reading this may be curious.

German Army map on ebay of the staryj oskol-starobelsk region of Russia, 1:300,000 scale
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=717945985

A Luftwaffe Navigation map of the Baltikum-Kaukasus region showing a date of 1938 but reportedly issued in 1943.
www.german-militaria.com/FieldGear/LWFliegerkarteBaltikum.htm

Once again, copies are great, but I enjoy getting a look at the real thing.

Regards,
West

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Philippe DM
Maps: Thanks for the tip Will look through it! (nt)
Fri Oct 4 07:40:30 2002
195.238.2.211

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Larry deZeng
Planquadrat für Flieger-Ausgabe Ost Heereskarten
Thu Oct 3 16:48:00 2002
205.188.209.144

Bill -

Regarding the non-fighter Planquatrat "map" (singular?) that you got from BA-MA Freiburg, does this cover the Luftwaffe edition of the Heereskarten for Russia? I didn't know this existed as a single map. What scale is it - 1 : 5,000,000? All of those that I've seen were in 1 : 300,000 scale and this precluded ever being able to locate more that just a few of them. They are very hard to find, although I haven't tried BA-MA yet. If you do have a single map showing the Luftwaffe grid squares superimposed over European Russia and extending eastward to approximately the line Moscow - Stalingrad, then could you provide us with the BA-MA Signatur Nummer(e.g., RL 3/1121 or whatever) so we mind order a copy?

TIA,

Larry

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

BN
Planquadraten
Thu Oct 3 16:58:13 2002
195.93.49.9

Larry, can't help you, I'm afraid. The map I have shows the UK area (largely coastal) from Berwick-on-Tweed to The Wash. Why not try BA/MA - you might be lucky. If that doesn't work, the Dept. of Maps at Imperial War Museum, London, might be a good bet.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Larry deZeng
Re: Planquadraten
Thu Oct 3 17:11:57 2002
205.188.209.43

Thanks, Bill -

I know several researchers who have tried to located these at BA-MA but failed to find any. What a discover these would be for those interest in the air war in Russia!

Our Library of Congress Maps Division has some in the 1 : 300,000 scale that I mentioned, but less than 35% of what would be needed to cover European Russia. Besides, at that scale it would cost a small fortune for copies, especially if they were in color.

As for the IWM, I don't think they have them either. There are too many good researchers in the U.K. who would have discovered them by now and the word would be out.

L.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Andreas Brekken
Planquadraten maps
Fri Oct 4 08:01:49 2002
129.240.8.184

Hi, guys.

Know it is of limited interest to most of You, but PlQ maps for Murmansk area/Northern Finland and the Atlantic off the Norwegian coast was observed at BAMA.

Andreas

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Larry deZeng
Re: Planquadraten maps
Fri Oct 4 12:48:13 2002
205.188.209.51

Yes, Andreas, there do seem to be some for that area. BA-MA may also have a few scattered sheets for other areas, too, such as the Balkans and northern Italy, from what I understand.

L.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Andreas Brekken
Make it!
Fri Oct 4 08:07:42 2002
129.240.8.184

Hi, Larry!

Know it is nice to have the real thing, but if the main purpose is to investigate what geographical region is covered by a given PlQ, why not make the map Yourself?

The PlQ system isn't that complicated, and I am quite sure that You could even persuade someone with a A0 plotter to print it out ones you have made it.

I have thought of doing it myself, but since the area isn't my main area of interest, it has been put on hold.

What You basically need is an electronic map of the area, preferably a GIS ready one, with layers so that You can get rid of the modern day populated areas/edit them. The rest would be feasible to do in a GIS package or even with for example Adobe Illustrator.


Regards,

Andreas Brekken

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Larry deZeng
Hldeziv@aol.com
Do-It-Yourself Maps
Fri Oct 4 12:56:22 2002
205.188.209.43

Interesting!

I lack the computer skills to do all that you described, but I am passing your suggestion along to someone who does have those skills along with a high interest in the subject matter. He already has the digital map and some of the other tools, I think.

Thanks!

L.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Carsten Petersen
Planquadraten
Thu Oct 3 06:32:55 2002
80.197.249.146

As far as I can find out the Küstenfliegergruppen used the Marine grid charts during the whole war. Only when they were dealing with fighter operations did they use the 'fighter grid system'. I have a few daily reports from the Küstenfliegergruppen from 1943/44 and they are in the marine grid. At the same time I have some exampels of search for missing air crews (night and dayfighters) and they are in the fighter grid.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

BIll Norman
Planquadraten
Thu Oct 3 13:00:55 2002
195.93.49.9

I am beginning to think that the type of grid used depended on whether the Küstenfliegergruppen were operating with the Kriegsmarine or the Luftwaffe.

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Pavel
Quadrant 52 16?
Mon Nov 18 20:56:02 2002
62.77.87.66

Could anybody help me to find out what mean Quadrant 52 16? This info is from German Archive and it could be somwhere near Scilly Isles.

TIA

Pavel

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Chris Goss
Re: Quadrant 52 16?
Mon Nov 18 22:00:30 2002
80.40.83.147

If it is meant to be this part of the UK, the correct identification is PlQ 15W/5216, Quadrat 52 being centered on Lundy Island in the Bristol Channel. The Scillies would be 15W/70

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Bill Norman
normawlnj@aol.com
Quadrat 5216
Tue Nov 19 12:29:41 2002
195.93.49.9

If this ref.number originated with a Küstenfliegergruppe in 1939-4, 5216 refers to an area off the coast of North Northumberland. Küstenfliegergruppen appear to have used Marineplanquadraten, at least until c.1941.