Jagdgeschwader 22

[Marc Stamer]

Hi...
does anybody know somthing about a
JG 22 ?
I have got a stamp of Jagdgeschwader 22 STAB ...
I have never heard of that Geschwader.
Can you help ?


http://www.lwag.org/reference/JG22stmp.jpg

Marc

[This message has been edited by Richard T Eger (edited 18 February 2001).]

[Jaap Woortman]

Dear Marc,

Just for archive reasons.
I thought I knew them all, but JG 22 would be new to me. I knew JG20, 21, 25, 26, 27 and 28 but not 22. Having seen the print to me it looks like from World War 1, but I am not an expert on WW 1.

Jaap

[This message has been edited by Jaap Woortman (edited 18 February 2001).]

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Jerry Carr
gtcarr@sendero.net
Jagdgeschwader 22
Tue Dec 10 03:05:32 2002
63.232.51.21

I have obtained from Ukraine what appears to be an original unit hand stamp for Jagdgeschwader 22. The mark made by the stamp is crystal clear. However, I can find no record of that fighter group in any reference. Has anybody ever heard of Jagdgeschwader 22?

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Ged
JG 22
Tue Dec 10 04:04:24 2002
203.27.69.93

Jerry,

As far as I am aware, there was no JG 22. The JGs with the number "2" in them (between 2 and 28) that I am aware of were JG's 2,20,21,25,26,27 and 28.
There were also Sturzkampgeschwader 2, Aufklarungsgruppe 22(Reconnaissance unit) and Kampfgruppe Z.b.V. 22 (Bomber unit).

Also try the web site http:www.ww2.dk/

Good luck, Ged

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Jaap Woortman
It is from World War I.
Tue Dec 10 11:25:39 2002
212.153.235.100

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Jerry Carr
Jagdgeschwader 22
Wed Dec 11 03:03:44 2002
63.232.122.239

Ged, thanks for the reply. I had reached the same conclusion, but I just wanted to make sure I hadn't missed something. Jaap, you are probably correct about the unit being WWI, but the hand stamp I have is definitely Nazi era. It and another stamp came from Ukraine within the last 6 months. The other stamp was for the 20 Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS, which I had no problem documenting. From what I understand, towards the end, the Germans created/authorized new units that may have never been manned or their mission changed (like moving the regular soldiers to the infantry and transferring the pilots out) before it could be fully organized. Strange that the "Stab" (staff) stamp survived. Thanks to both of you!

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Kari Lumppio
Is there Estonian connection?
Wed Dec 11 07:14:30 2002
130.233.83.21

Hi!

As the 20 Waffen-SS division was same as 1. Estonian division I would like to ask if it's stamp and the JG 22 one were (both?) taken from Estonians serving in German military?

If yes, the JG 22 stamp just might be connected with the Estonian Luftwaffe Legion which was to be formed in 1944. Some documents (few pages only) survive in Estonian National Archive about the Estonian LW Legion, but no mention of JG22. What I remember about the documents it was all preparatory work, creating commanding structure etc. IIRC the idea was that both Estonians and Latvians would form a JaBo Gruppe (perhaps under same Geschwader?). Both nationalities had some ten NSGr pilots trained on FW 190 (summer 1944) for the JaBo purpose but in the end served only in regular LW units.

Something about the Estonian and Latvian LW Legions are written in Carl-Fredrik Geust's book "Under the Red Star - Luftwaffe Aircraft in the Soviet Airforce" (Airlife publications 1993).


Regards,
Kari

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Jerry Carr
Jagdgeschwader 22
Wed Dec 11 23:16:47 2002
63.232.124.112

All the stamps came from Ukraine. There are about another dozen or so in the cache. I have trouble reading German script as it is, but backward in an arc, covered with old dried ink is a real task. I cleaned mine before making an impression and translating it. I cannot say how they got there or where they have been since 1945. I'm guessing they were "liberated" by Russian forces and taken home by soldiers or as official military property. I say official property because a lot of what was held by the Soviets is starting to surface in parts of the old Warsaw Pact and Russia too. The enterprising folks there have discovered that there is a literal gold mine in Nazi artifacts, which are totally useless to them. I know some of the items I have seen of late are from "state" collections (they have property ID's) and other official sources. I will try to find out the legends on the other stamps.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Richard T. Eger
Stamp
Thu Dec 12 04:51:17 2002
162.33.247.31

Back in Feb. 2001 Marc Stamer was inquiring on the LWAG site about a JG 22 stamp, but the issue went unresolved. The following is a URL to a photo of Marc's stamp:

http://www.lwag.org/reference/JG22stmp.jpg

Is this the same one, Jerry?

Regards,
Richard

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Jerry Carr
Jagdgeschwader 22
Thu Dec 12 13:31:54 2002
63.232.126.114

Yes, except for the shape of the handle, (mine has one smooth swell to the butt end) it is identical. Hmm. Either these stamps are from the same cache or they are both bogus. How many "Jagdgeschwader 22 Stab" stamps would a nonfunctional air group really have? Of course, if only the staff ever existed, than that is all that would have ever been needed for them to carry out their administrative and organizational tasks. Like I said, the folks over there are realizing that Nazi artifacts are gold. They are a highly able and enterprising lot and are perfectly capable of making such an item perhaps from old materials (like old furniture legs) that already show signs of age.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Franek Grabowski
Jagdgeschwader 22
Thu Dec 12 22:15:45 2002
213.25.54.73

All the ex-WaPac countries were virtually cleaned of any remnants of the past, especially during the first 10 years after the war. The development of the black-market or 'free-market' as you wish to call it caused the general increase of the interest in surviving German memorabilia for the 'export purposes' starting in the late 1970s. This was however no well without the bottom and in the late 1980s first fakes appeared. The process continues and actually most of the badges and similar memorabilia available in the 'East' are fakes.
Have to add that most of the 'recent gold' is smuggled illegally and quite often stolen from the museums which have no resources for legal actions.
Franek

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

JerryCarr
Jagdgeschwader 22
Thu Dec 12 23:32:40 2002
63.232.51.112

Franek, you comments make perfect sense and jibe perfectly with all that I have heard from the dealers of such artifacts. One point stands out in all of this. Why would anyone go to the trouble of making a bogus stamp for a nonexistent unit when a stamp for a famous JG could be made just as easily? Maybe they're more crafty than we can imagine! Oh well, caveat emptor.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Franek Grabowski
A joke perhaps? (n/t)
Thu Dec 12 23:48:51 2002
213.25.54.73

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Jerry Carr
Jagdgeschwader 22
Fri Dec 13 00:38:55 2002
63.232.51.112

Well, you may be right. One really can't rule anything out.