Wehrmachtsauskunftstelle fur Kriegeverluste und Kriegsgefangene (WASt) - 6

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Angelos Mansolas
Luftwaffe fighter losses France 1944
Sun Nov 17 14:11:46 2002
195.97.118.124

Hi all,

I am searching for a list of Luftwaffe fighter losses in France during the summer of 1944 for the following dates:

22 April, 21 June, 24 June, 8 July, 8 August.

Any help would be much appreciated.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Nick Beale
Losses in France
Sun Nov 17 17:44:19 2002
212.159.53.213

The Luftwaffe's aircraft loss records for 1944 have been missing since the war. The personnel casualty records have effectively closed to all but relatives of the airmen concerned by a German privacy law introduced in the early 1990s.

For dates from 6 June onward you will find much (but not all) of the information you seek in Jean-Bernard Frappé's "La Luftwaffe face au debarquement allié" (Editions Heimdal, France, 1999) however this will not necessarily cover aircraft losses where the pilot was not injured nor losses due to bombing/strafing etc.

In the Bundesarchiv at Freiburg (or in the Public Record Office, London in tranlsation) there are some records of Luftflotte 3 for the invasion period which include some figures for daily successes and losses.

These can be supplemented by reference to prisoner of war interrogation reports (held in the PRO and in America) by reports of monitored R/T traffic in the PRO and by reading through several thousand "Ultra" decrypts for the relevant period.

So there's no simple or final answer but the Frappé book is probably the best printed source you'll find.

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Bernd Barbas
Fw Georg Liebherr
Thu Nov 28 13:12:24 2002
194.45.48.11

Hello friends ,

I am looking for the unit of Fw Georg Liebherr . He was a fighter pilot and was killed in 1941 in Belgium .

Thank you for any help .

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Charles Bavaroise
Georg Liebherr
Thu Nov 28 14:55:15 2002
212.34.74.75

Hallo Herr Barbas,

Fw. Georg Liebherr, KIA 12.Aug.1941, Houthulst,
2. EGr. JG 26, Bf 109 E4, WNr. 839, Code unknown.

Source: WASt

HTH

Carl

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Bernd Barbas
Georg Liebherr
Fri Nov 29 08:48:40 2002
194.45.48.11

Hallo Charles ( Herr Charles ? ),

vielen Dank für die schnelle Antwort !

MfG , B.Barbas

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Michael
Family members in the Luftwaffe. Could you help?
Thu Dec 12 15:22:10 2002
129.93.205.204



I have found several people with my last name that served in the Heer. My university has the records of the Air Ministry but those do not include personnel records. Does anyone in there possession have the rolls of those who served in the Luftwaffe. The last name is Schauss. If you can help or offer any suggestions please do. Thanks and have a great day.

Michael Shouse

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Sean Michael Leeman Master Blaster
You could try WASt in Berlin.
Thu Dec 12 17:30:05 2002
198.26.122.12

I have also had a bit of luck with the Bundes archive.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Larry deZeng
Schauß
Thu Dec 12 22:10:22 2002
64.12.97.7

There was an Oblt. Jakob Schaus (one "s") who was a pilot in a Nachtjagdgeschwader and was awarded the DKG on 1 Jan 45. Other than that, your best shot is either WASt or the Bundesarchiv-Zentralnachweissstelle (BA-ZNS) in Kornelimünster bei Aachen. The latter has all of the old Luftwaffe personnel records and the former has access to them plus information on casualties.

L.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Ged
Schauss
Sun Dec 15 03:05:39 2002
203.23.236.66

Yes, the Oblt. Jakob Schaus (one "s"), flew with NJG 4 and was a Staffelkapitan, who had (23) aerial victories before he went missing in action on 2 February 1945. That's the only Schaus that I have in my listing.

[Richard T Eger]

The following thread, taken from 12 O'Clock High!, starts out innocently enough, but, by the end, highlights nicely one of the problems of dealing with WASt. From 12 O'Clock High!:

Joe
7/JG26 Loss 06.09.1940.
Sun Jan 19 18:03:41 2003
195.92.168.172

I am trying to gather info on the crash of a Bf 109E-1 at Swamp Farm,Old Romney, Kent, the pilot was buried as unknown, but thought to have been Gefr Peter Holzapfel, is there a "K" or "G" Report on this crash?
Thanks for any help.
Joe.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Melvin Brown
Bf 109E-1
Sun Jan 19 23:20:02 2003
195.92.168.175

Hi Joe,

A.I.1(g)07.09.40.

Me 109. Crashed three quarter mile south of Old Romney at 10.40 hours on 6/9. Markings 5 + I (I in white). Standard DB601A/1 engine. Cause of crash unknown. Wreckage burnt out after crashing. Armament 4 MG 17's, 2 in wing and 2 over engine. Standard bulkhead. No head piece for pilot.
Pilot dead. Reported whitewash on wingtips and rudder.

Sorry Joe, have no (k) report for this one!

Melvin.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Joe
Bf 109
Mon Jan 20 11:41:14 2003
195.92.168.171

Hi Melvin,
Thanks for that, can the Markings 5+1 (1 in White) be used to positively ID the A/C's unit?
Regards
Joe

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

John Vasco
Re: Bf 109
Mon Jan 20 21:04:41 2003
195.92.67.66

The unit has been identified as 7./JG 26 in 'The Blitz Then And Now, Volume 1' and in the Prien/Stemmer/Rodeike/Bock book, Teil 4/1. However the identity of th epilot is still not 100% clear. In 'The Blitz', it states: "...The hapless pilot of this aircraft, probably already wounded, was unable to extricate himself from the blazing cockpit. It is recorded that local troops, quickly on the scene, found it impossible to approach the inferno and were forced to shoot the pilot to prevent unnecessary suffering. His remains were later taken for burial to Folkestone New Cemetery, Hawkinge but defied proper identification and he lies there to this day as an 'Unknown German Airman'. Only two pilots from this unit remain unaccounted for on this date. Gefr. Karl Bieker and Gefr. Peter Holzapfel, and although the former's death was confirmed by the German authorities in a report dated 7.1.1941 it is still uncoear which of them met this tragic end on Romney Marsh that Friday morning...."

Teil 4/1 give the following:
06.09.40 7./JG26 Gefr. Karl Bieker + Luftkampf Spitfire, südlich London, 100% Bf 109E-1 3578 ws. 5+|

Hope this helps.



John Vasco

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Don Caldwell
It has to be Peter Holzapfel,.....
Tue Jan 21 14:09:07 2003
204.136.184.34

...and I don't understand the delay in identifying him. The only other Luftwaffe pilot MIA after combat in this area, Gefr. Karl Bieker, reached the Channel before crashing. His body washed ashore on the French coast in November 1940, and he was buried in the Wehrmacht cemetery at Bourdon, near Abbeville. Documentation on Bieker is available at the WASt and the BA-MA.

HTH

Don

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Joe
Gefr Peter Holzapfel
Wed Jan 22 13:07:26 2003
195.92.168.175

Thanks John and Don,
I have contacted the WASt on this, they need documentary proof that the Bf 109 was from JG 26, also the Werk Nr that I have for Holzapfel's aircraft is 3877.
Gefr Karl Bieker was originally buried at Gonnehem in the
Pas-de-Calais, and moved to Bourdon on 15.11.1961.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Don Caldwell
Teaching deductive logic to bureacracies...
Wed Jan 22 14:02:18 2003
204.136.184.34

...is not my thing. "Documentary proof that the Bf 109 was from JG 26" may be impossible and should not be necessary, since Holzapfel is the only Bf 109 pilot MIA for this date. Good luck!

Don

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

John Vasco
Re: Teaching deductive logic to bureacracies...
Wed Jan 22 14:17:45 2003
195.92.67.68

Don,

Quite right. But the irony to all this is that the WASt have the documentary proof in the ORIGINAL Namentliche Verlustmeldung held by them from the unit. A simple cross-reference with the RAF (AHB) re their 'g' report, and the connecting mortuary/church records should tie it up. But they won't bother. And that is what bloody annoys me, and leaves an Erpr. Gr. 210 crewman in an open field to this day!!!

Regards,


John Vasco

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Joe
Holzapfel
Wed Jan 22 14:35:16 2003
195.92.168.176

Don,
I agree with you, BUT, they will not have it any other way.
Joe

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Dénes Bernád
Dornier Do 217 recce shot down over Rumania on 31 August '4
Fri Mar 21 00:21:46 2003
149.99.115.241

I am looking for any information on a Dornier Do 217 reconnaissance a/c shot down over Rumania on 31 August '44, as reported by Rumanian intelligence.
Three crewmembers bailed out, one's parachute failed to open, died. Aircraft crashed and burned.

Dénes

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Charles Bavaroise
carl.e.charles@muenchen-mail.de
Do 217 recce
Sun Mar 23 18:17:38 2003
62.245.162.138

Dénes,

According to the GQM Summarische Verlustmeldungen
1.(F) Nacht lost a Do 217 that day. To my knowlegde this unit was operating on the southeastern sector in August 1944 and was one of the very few remaining recce-Staffeln still using a Do 217.

Unfortunatelly the WASt-report for the missing crew pres. was lost, as there is no one within the files of (F) Nacht or FAGr. 2.

HTH

Carl

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Dénes Bernád
Do 217 recce lost on 31 August 1944
Sun Mar 23 18:29:04 2003
149.99.114.115

Thank you, Charles, for the very good info. This must be the one, I believe.
If I understood correctly, the unit is Aufklärungsstaffel 1.(F)/Nacht. Indeed, Holm's web site lists 1 Do 217M-1 lost sometimes in August 1944, albeit to non-enemy inflicted cause:
http://www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/aufkl/b1nacht.html

Yours:

Dénes