Museums with Luftwaffe aircraft - 4

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Andreas Brekken
IWM North anything for Luftwaffe buffs?
Thu Aug 29 09:42:43 2002
129.240.8.184

Hi, guys.

Got to go to Manchester UK next week, anything there for "us"?

I believe the IWM has a museum site there, correct?

Hints on good book shops, scale model stores etc also welcome.

Regards,

Andreas Brekken

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Mikael Olrog
Manchester
Thu Aug 29 17:13:16 2002
213.89.103.197

Hi Andreas,

I don't know about IWMs museum there, but Greater Manchester Museum of Science and Industry is a musuem with some aircraft of interest, though none Luftwaffe related since the FA 330 has moved to some other place. Theres a Ohka so there's an Axis connection. The museum is interesting despite the lack of Luftwaffe aircraft!

Best whishes
/Mikael

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Dave
Manchester
Sun Sep 1 11:55:17 2002
203.96.111.202

Andreas

There are no Luftwaffe aircraft there (IWM North) ... in fact there is only one full size machine [ Harrier ] . It is more a visual / interactive type museum.

regards

Dave

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

V.Marsanic
FW-189
Wed Oct 9 05:40:16 2002
195.29.140.62

Hy!

Does anyone have some info about, and current status of the FW-189 WNr.2100 V7+1H
that is being restored to airworthy status by "FW-189 Restoaration Group"

Thanks!
Vedran.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

David Scalabrin
FW-189
Wed Oct 9 08:55:17 2002
212.216.80.94

Go to www.aeroplanemonthly.com/aeroplane_monthly.htm in the "News" section.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

V.Marsanic
Thanks for the link n/t
Wed Oct 9 19:49:58 2002
195.29.63.177

[Richard T Eger]

The Kent Battle of Britain Museum contains a number of Luftwaffe interest items. The museum's website can be found at:

http://kbobm.org

Sections of Luftwaffe interest are:

Map of Site - Plan layout. Clicking on any building or the index on the left will provide a description of the building contents. A color photo is provided of the collection within each building. Of Luftwaffe interest, quoting from the site:

Dowding Memorial Hangar

"The Dowding Memorial Hangar was erected by the Museum in tribute to Air Vice Marshall Sir Hugh Dowding, C-in-C Fighter Command during the dark days of the Battle, when Britain stood alone. The hangar contains three full-size replica Messerschmitt Bf 109E's from the epic 1968 film "The Battle of Britain", an original Granau Baby Glider, a type of glider that many Luftwaffe pilots trained on prior to the Second World War, and ten Daimler-Benz Aero engines recovered from Luftwaffe aircraft, including the first and last Messerschmitt Bf 109's to crash on British soil in 1940.

The substantial remains of the Messerschmitt Bf 109E flown by Oberleutnant Ulrich Steinhilper of JG 52, as well as wings recovered from the Messerschmitt Bf 109's flown by Lieutenant Erich Meyer of JG 51, Feldwebel Ernst Hempel of JG 53 and Oberleutnant Kurt Dähne of JG 26, can be seen."

Armoury

"The original Armoury building contains a comprehensive collection of both ground-based and airborne weaponry together with the countries most complete collection of 1940 uniforms, flying equipment and insignia as worn by both sides of the conflict, as well as personal items donated to the Museum by pilots, both British and German who fought in the Battle of Britain.

You will also be able to see 'The Wall Of Honour' which contains over 600 autographs of Battle of Britain pilots and aircrew, some famous, many not so, and a impressive collection of Battle of Britain Fine Art Prints."

"There is also a small display, dedicated to the First World War, which includes items from Trench Warfare through to the Zeppelin and Gotha raids on Great Britain."

V1 Display

"Building 4 is the original 1940 'B' Flight Dispersal Hut, which was formerly sited on the east side of the airfield by Killing Wood. It now houses one of the Museum's V1 Flying Bombs, or 'Doodle Bug' as it was more commonly known, together with a section of launch ramp, launch piston and associated items. This example of a V1 Flying Bomb was used in the film 'Operation Crossbow'."

Operations Block

"The Operation Block, from where all air operations were controlled at Hawkinge during the War, is now home to items gleaned from over 600 Battle of Britain aircraft, the majority of which were excavated by the Museum's recovery team in the late 1960's and 1970's or donated by individuals since the foundation of the collection.

Items large and small, ranging from Aero engines to small strips of alloy with identification numbers of the aircraft concerned, they all bear mute witness to the terrible force of their impact with the soil, over sixty years ago."

There appears to be a German aircraft suspended from the ceiling, but I can't figure out which one it might be."

How To Get There - Includes map.

Who are we? - "The museum is the oldest established and largest collection of Battle of Britain artefacts on show in the country."

Links Page - Primarily links to WW II British air interest sites.

Regards,
Richard

[Richard T Eger]

At first, the Aircraft Engine Historical Society website didn't strike a chord with me, as it looked to contain information only on American and British engines, hardly the stuff of Luftwaffe interest. However, looks can be deceiving and one really needs to explore this site thoroughly. It has a very helpful search engine and one of the site's most noteworthy features is exploration of the Sarah Clark collection at NARA II. There are a fair number of color photos of German engines in museums. Another unique feature is a very extensive guide to scanning of historical documents. The site address is:

http://www.enginehistory.org/

Search Engine

Working down the main page, one comes directly to the search engine. It is here that one of the hidden assets of this site jumps to life. If you type in Jumo 004, it will look for any Jumo engine. Photographs available of Jumo engines in various museum collections can than be viewed through the internal links. If there is a book or review reference, this will also have an internal link for viewing.

One weakness is that some engine and engine location identification information is not given. Also, on one page, the thumbnail size references are so small that the photos are hard to make out. However, the enlargements are of excellent size and quality.

Book Reviews

Working down the main page, you come to the site index on the left. As I said, much of the site is devoted to American and British engines and thus, so far, every index listing above book reviews has nothing covering German engines. One book reviewed is "The Bombing of Rolls-Royce at Derby in two World Wars". Within this is some discussion of the BMW 801 and Do 217. Beyond this review, the books reviewed have a decided anglo/American slant.

Author's Page

Scanning Archival Material, by Daniel D. Whitney

A wonderful hidden gem of a treatise on this subject in pdf format well worth printing out, Whitney covers the following aspects:

How Scanners Work
Using Scanned Document Files
Exploiting the Advantages of Scanning
File Compression
Adobe Acrobat Format (pdf)
Transparencies
So How Should I Scan and Process Documents?
Issues and Integrity
Summary
Additional reading

The 6 pages of text are followed by a page showing how a poor original document scanned in full color at 4,729 KB, can actually be improved upon by proper color channel selection, reducing document size to 35 to 36 KB.

This page is followed with a table entitled "Alternative Raster File Formats, Benefits and Applications", giving the pro's and con's of bmp, tiff, gif, and jpeg formats.

References

Index of Selected Engine Information in the Sarah Clark Files at the National Archives II, by Kimble D. McCutcheon

Quoting from the site:

"The Sarah Clark Files contain a wealth of information on Air Force aircraft, engines, and equipment from 1916 to 1951. This is a copy of engine topics in the finding aid."

While the emphasis is probably on U.S. built engines, McCutcheon goes to considerable trouble to explain what the Sarah Clark collection is and how to search within it. I have been through the same indexes he has and their is a wealth of information in the Sarah Clark collection on German engines and aircraft, so becoming a bit familiar with its in's and out's is time well spent.

As McCutcheon describes the index, its arrangement is a bit arcane, which is being generous. In general, the index is arranged in chronological packets of time. Each packet will start out at the lowest decimal filing system number, then work up in ascending numerical sequence. Once done, the next packet and so on will run through the sequence, repeating over and over. For the 1939-45 time frame, you will have numerous seemingly overlapping packets time-wise. See McCutcheon's binder listings to see what I mean by this. Thus, if you want to hunt up information on BMW engines, you'll need to slog your way through a large chunk of the index. Nor can you really count on just looking for one decimal filing system number, like the 452.7 noted in McCutcheon's illustration. You might find related information under a variety of numbers. So, to do a thorough job of it, plan to spend about half a day jotting notes from these records. As can be seen, the RD numbers are the connection needed to get to the actual storage boxes.

Of especial value on the site is that McCutcheon has copied in pdf format all the 452 series engine reference index pages, which include foreign engines. Each page is downloadable to your computer. So, if engines are your thing, you can download all these pages to your computer and make your selections before you get to NARA II.

Galleries

Engine Images from the National Air and Space Museum

While no German engines are noted in the photos here, 2 color photos show storage racks of engines.

Images from museums in the former Eastern Bloc, by Tom Speer

--Aviation Museum, Krakow

Junkers Jumo 205 - 1 color photo
(A number of other engines are not identified)

Images from Deutsches Museum Flugwerft Schleißheim, by Terry Burks

Argus As 17a - 1 color photo, 1 plaque
Argus Model 4 - 1 color photo, 1 plaque
BMW M2 B15 - 1 color photo, 1 plaque
BMW 132a - 1 color photo, 1 plaque
BMW 803 - 1 color photo, 1 plaque
Daimler D IV a - 1 color photo, 1 plaque
DB 610 - 1 color photo, 1 plaque
Haacke HFM 3 - 1 color photo, 1 plaque
Junkers L5 - 1 color photo, 1 plaque
Jumo 211 F - 1 color photo, 1 plaque
Porsche PFM 3200 - 1 color photo, 1 plaque

Image Gallery: Fenland & West Norfolk Aviation Museum, by Gary and Janet Brossett

Junkers Jumo 211 wreck - 1 color photo

Image Gallery: EAA Museum in Oshkosh, WI, by Jim Buckel

Heinkel-Hirth He S 011 - 3 color photos

Links - Links to about 20 museum and engine sites.

Engines in Museums - tabular listings

San Diego Aerospace Museum

Junkers Jumo 004B-1
Walter 109-500A

The Kalamazoo Aviation History Museum

Hirth HM-504A-2

National Air and Space Museum

Air Technical Arsenal TSU-11 (Hitachi Hatsukaze Ha 11 Model 11 and Jet)
Opel (Argus) Type III
Argus As III
Argus As III DZ
Argus AS 10 R
Austro Daimler V-12
BMW Model IIIA
BMW 003
BMW 003A
BMW 801 (2)
BMW 801C
Turboshaft, BMW Model 6002
Benz BZ 4S
Daimler-Motoren (Mercedes) DIII Avu
Daimler-Benz DB 601-1E
Daimler-Benz DB 603 A (2)
Daimler-Benz DB 603 A-2
Daimler-Benz DB 605
Engine, Junkers 388L-1 (2)
Engine, Me 410A-3/U1 (2)
Hirth 500-B1
Hitachi Hatsukaze 11, Ha 11 Model 11 (Hirth) (2)
Heinkel-Hirth RR2
Heinkel He S 011 (2)
Jumo 004 (6)
Jumo 004 B4 (5)
Junkers Jumo 207 D-V2
Junkers Jumo 210 D
Junkers Jumo 211
Junkers Jumo 211-9 (2)
Junkers Jumo 213
Junkers Jumo 213A-1
Turbojet, Ne-20 (2)
Mock-up (wood) Engine, Turbojet, Air Technical Arsenal TR-30
Turbojet, Air Technical Arsenal TR-30

Regards,
Richard

[Richard T Eger]

Colonel Blade's Ju 88 - Archiv website is devoted to the Ju 88 family of aircraft. The address of this German language site is:

http://www.ju88-archiv.de/ju88/main.htm

Sections of interest are:

Privat (Personal) - Color photo of a display model of a Ju 88 apparently of WW II origin.

Neues (New) - Site updates

Geschichte (History) - Early history of development of the Ju 88 with 12 b & w photos.

Versionen (Versions) - Fairly complete coverage of the various versions up through the Ju 488 with capsule descriptions, b & w photos, and color profiles. Includes an interesting development progression chart.

Geschwader (Squadron) - Listing by squadron identification, Kennzeichen, and Ju 88 versions flown.

Museum - Listing of known existing Ju 88 family aircraft from wrecks to museums. A number of these include photographs. Countries where Ju 88 family aircraft are currently located are:

Germany
Norway
Belgium
USA
USA - NASM Garber restoration facility
Great Britain
Piräus
Euböa
East coast of the Peloponnes
Crete
Russia
Finnland
Le Frioul bei Marseille
Nordskyn peninsula at the north cape

Quellen (Sources) - Descriptions with color cover photos of 15 books.

Forum - Presumably a discussion forum, but I could not open this page.

Links - 7 Luftwaffe history related links.

Regards,
Richard

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Larry Hickey
Lt. Wolfgang Teumer 2/JG 51
Mon Feb 17 02:21:52 2003
12.253.89.61

Was delighted to see a photo in the recent Vol 4/II of Prien, et. al's "Jagdfliegerverbande...", P. 29, of several 109s from 2./JG 51 during the fall of 1940. One of them was "Black 12," which almost certainly was the aircraft of Lt. Teumer, that belly landed on Manston airfield on 27/11/40. This aircraft was later restored and is now displayed at the Battle of Britain Museum at Hendon, England. My question is, I have never seen a post-capture photo of this aircraft in its original German markings. Certainly some must have been taken, but have any ever come to light? Do any of our Battle of Britian experts know of the existence of any? I note with interest that the "12" on the side of the restored aircraft is positioned differently that on the plane in Prien's photo. I know about the history of the aircraft and its restoration, I'm just interested in knowing about the existence of photos.

Larry Hickey

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Peter Harris
Schnaufer's last 110?
Tue Mar 4 12:25:49 2003
202.67.98.243

Gidday,

I'm doing some research for a 3D modelling project and totally confused by conflicting information in relation to Schnaufer's last 110.

I have seen various profiles of BF110G-4 G9+BA which pupport to be his last mount as Geschwaderkommodore of NJG4. However, these profiles look suspiciously like Wr Nr 180560 3C+BA brought to the UK as AM15 postwar. Mr Hinchcliff, in his excellent Schnaufer bio, argues that 3C+BA was in fact Schnaufer's machine. However, Phil Butler in "War Prizes" categorically states that 3C+BA is not Schnaufer's machine.

Can any one clarify this matter, as I have exhausted all my avenues of investigation including net searches and my own reasonably substantial Luftwaffe library.

yours,
Peter, Sydney OZ

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Stuart Sanders
Schnaufer's Last Bf110
Tue Mar 4 21:24:02 2003
81.96.230.219

My understanding was that a lot of the confusion came about from the fact that when 3C+BA was brought to the UK it was accompanied by the tails of Schnaufer's plane - although apparently not attached to the a/c. Subsequently one tail went to Australia and the other to the IW Museum.

My source, from memory, was the excellent sheet accompanying the PD Decals sheet on Schnaufer's Bf 110!

I'll see if I can find a more definite reference when I can access my library.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Peter Harris
Thanks for the responses
Wed Mar 5 12:42:39 2003
202.67.113.254

When I'm in Canberra, I always drop into the AWM and make sure I have a look at the horizontal stabiliser (which is easy to miss if you don't look for it). The 76 finish has "yellowed" significantly but all those victory markings certainly arouse a number of thoughts/feelings.

Thanks again (any other thoughts appreciated also)

Peter

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

George Hopp
Yes, 3C+BA was Schnaufer's last a/c!
Wed Mar 5 00:04:06 2003
216.191.233.247

For some reason, some people have gotten on the bandwagon which says that Schnaufer would have kept his G9 (NJG 1) identifier when transferred to NJG 4 as its boss. I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry at such naivete. A unit leader is, more than anything else, a morale booster; and, at that time in the war (November 1944), the night fighter units really did need morale boosting. So, I have no doubt that when his aircraft first landed at his new headquarters, there would have been a special ceremony of overpainting the G9 with the 3C, and he would have been in the front row cheering the painter on.

As for the BA, the logbook of one of Schnaufer's crew--I believe it was Fritz Rumpelhardt's--noted that BA was the last aircraft flown by Schnaufer before war's end, flying it four times but scoring no victories.

So, yes, I believe that the brand-new 110 G-4 with the FuG 218 radar (one of two that I have seen on the 110; the other being on the 110 of Hans-Joachim Jabs [G9+AA]); the radio altimeter antennas; the straight Eberspaecher exhaust flame dampers; the Night Fighter crests on the fuselage; the unmarked vertical stabibizers (which should in themselves mean something to the thinking mind, since the originals had been removed); the blanked off rear gun position (if the MG 81Z unit had been installed, the mounting brackets and gunsight would still be visible) -- it was well known that Schnaufer preferred Wilhelm Gansler's superb eyesight for spotting and avoiding enemy intruder's, than having him fight them with his 7.9mm 'popguns'; and, with the marking 3C+BA, is the last of Schnaufer's aircraft. The excellent photos by Neville Franklin beautifully illustrate the aircraft.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Bernd Barbas
Schnaufers last airplane
Fri Mar 7 13:18:38 2003
194.45.48.11

Hello Peter ,

about 30 years ago I tried to do the same , and quickly found out , that there is a lot of confusion .
3C+BA was actually Schnaufers last ac , no victory with it .
G9+EF was the ac , where he made his last victories ( No 85 to No 121 )
The british were so impressed by Schnaufer , that they exhibited a 3C+AA with victory tally in the Hyde Park .
3C+BA was transferred to England as AIR MIN 15 , at the fotos I can see no swastika or victory tally at the rudder .
So it is possible , that either the rudders were used from the EF or repainted / copied at the BA .
So it is possible to do the BA with victory tally , but who can proof that ?
I actually wanted to do a Schnaufer book , but Motorbuch was at this time not interested . I heard , that Mr Hinchcliff made a Schaufer book , but I havent seen it !

All the best .

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Peter Harris
thanks Bernd
Sat Mar 8 09:24:43 2003
203.212.129.237

Your view matches Mr Hincliff's in his excellent "Schnaufer: Ace of Diamonds" bio. I picked my copy up from Ian Allen's Superstore:

http://www.ianallansuperstore.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi

yours,
Peter Harris,
Sydney, OZ (home of the Kookaburra)

[Richard T Eger]

The Wings on the Web website contains nearly 12,000 aircraft & missile photos. It appears that a nominal membership fee is required to view normal size images sent via email, but thumbnail photos can be viewed on the site for free. Actual prints can be purchased. The majority of photos are of museum aircraft and missiles at NASM Garber and other museums in the USA, Germany, and the United Kingdom. There are many detail shots. The site addresss is:

http://www.wingsontheweb.com/

Photos of Luftwaffe (and advanced Japanese) interest available are:

Ar 234 - 57 photos
Ba 349 - 31 photos
Bv 155 V2 - 71 photos
Bv 246 Hagelkorn - 1 photo
Bu 133C - 1 photo
Bu 181B - 1 photo
DFS 230 - 13 photos
Do 335 - 78 photos
Fi 156 - 23 photos
Fw 190 - 118 photos
Fw 44 - 1 photo
Ta 152 - 30 photos
Fw 190D - 188 photos
He 219 - 299 photos
He 111/CASA 2111 - 250 photos
He 162 - 46 photos
Hs 117 - 1 photo
Hs 298 - 1 photo
Ho IX - 223
Ho IV - 6 photos
Ju 388 - 26 photos
Ju 52 - 2 photos
Ju 87 - 29 photos
Ju 88 - 7 photos
Klemm 35-D - 11 photos
Kreider-Reisner KR-34C 1 photo
Kugisho Ohka - 21 photos
Bf 108 - 8 photos
Bf 109 - 47 photos
Bf 110 - 21 photos
Me 163 - 7 photos
Me 262 - 185 photos
Me 264 - 1 photo
Me 410 - 93 photos
Mitsubishi J8M1 Shusui - 1 photo
Nakajima Kikka - 3 photos
V-1 - 1 photo

Regards,
Richard

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

andy m
Any He177 fragements anywhere...please?
Thu Mar 20 18:41:03 2003
195.92.67.66

Hi
Im trying to locate a few relic fragments of the He177 to complete a presentation for a local museum - we have examples of every Luftwaffe type that flew against Britain apart from the He177. We could afford a modest sum or would be happy to swap parts of other Luftwaffe types.
Thanks
Andy (UK)

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Graham Boak
Cosford has an engine
Mon Mar 24 15:07:27 2003
20.138.254.2

Maybe they have a few odd bits in store?

[Richard T Eger]

From within a thread on 12 O'Clock High!:

Larry
SD 2's*
Tue Apr 15 21:22:21 2003
216.208.51.2

Thanx for the info, Joe. There must be dozens of these little devils still lying around. I saw one in the Imperial War Museum.

(* German 'butterfly bombs'.

Regards,
Richard)