NSA Records at the NARA, Freedom of Information Act (FOIA)

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'clock High!:

Kari Lumppio
US "archive" for German (and Finnish) documents etc.
Thu May 18 15:46:16 2000


Hi!

Not sure if this is the right forum for this but at least this is the most active of any aviation history forums I follow. I have a question about a US "archive" and their
service.

National Security Agency has a list of declassified documents at: www.nsa.gov:8080/programs/opendoor/Bibliography.html (http://www.nsa.gov:8080/programs/opendoor/Bibliography.html)

There are also homepage for sending a "Freedom of Information Act request" at: http://www.nsa.gov/docs/efoia/foia.form.html

Before sending anyhting I would like to ask couple of things.

There is written in the site that: "In addition, a requester may be assessed fees for the processing of a request in accordance with 5 U.S.C. 552(4)(A)(ii) and
Department of Defense Regulation 5400.7-R. The FOIA does not compel government agencies to answer substantive questions, and such requests will not be
responded to by the FOIA office."

Has anyone here used the service? What exactly is "substantive question" and how much (about) are the fees?

The document list is very interesting as there is possiblity that a part of the Finnish Military radio intelligence documents ended up there post WW2.

There is listed a lot a German air force documents too in the site.

TIA

Kari Lumppio ,Finland

[Richard T Eger]

From TOH!:

Rabe Anton
Re: FOIA and NSA and NARA and . . .
Fri May 19 01:56:41 2000


Kari,

Some facts about the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA).
First, the Act applies to foreign nationals submitting
a FOIA request just as it does to American citizens.
In other words, under the FOIA, it doesn't matter if
you are an American or a Finn. Same treatment, same
rights.

Second,the Act was intended to open government archives.
If you submit a request for information under the FOIA,
all that the law requires is that you be told what
documents are available in the office, agency, bureau,
or what-have-you. If the documents are classified
or otherwise restricted, the FOIA permits you to
ask for a review of these markings. The law does not,
repeat, DOES NOT, require the release of any and all
documents. It DOES require a good faith review,
however.

The FOIA does NOT require the government office, agency, bureau, and so forth to perform any RESEARCH on your behalf. All that is required is that it make a good
faith effort to identify what documents may be on hand that would
help you, and to make these available at your expense.
Period.

I very strongly suggest that you never ever use the
FOIA unless you absolutely have to. Civil servants
have a VERY bad reaction to the FOIA, and most of
them will give you better service if you avoid calling
on the Act. I shall not tell you why I know this,
but believe me, I do.

There are indeed former Finnish (and perhaps German)
intelligence documents at the National Archives. If
you read the NSA and NARA web sites carefully, you will
see that in accordance with federal records management
practice, the obsolete records of the NSA have been
retired to the NARA. That includes former NSA files
from Finland. These are now in the hands of the National
Archives. You may ask your countryman Carl-Fredrik
Geust to tell you more about these Finnish intelligence
documents now in NARA.

RA

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'clock High!:

Kari Lumppio
Gentlenmen thanks for clearing it up for me
Fri May 19 07:46:33 2000


Hi!

It seems indeed that FOIA is not what I want to do. Sounds like sueing somebody. Honestly didn't know that. You Americans surely do a lot of things differently than
people here. Thanks for clearing it up.

About the Finnish radio intelligence documents. Lots of the material gathered during WW2 were taken with the personnel to Sweden right after the war (operation
Stella Polaris IIRC). As many of you know post-war Sweden was actually not so neutral it wanted to look like. Rumours say that the intelligence material (or at least)
part of it survived and ended up in "western hands".

Thanks again,

Kari

[Richard T Eger]

From TOH!:

Richard T. Eger
NSA Documents
Thu May 18 21:05:52 2000


Dear Kari,

I went to the NSA site that you mentioned and took a look. First, it looks like the NSA has transferred these documents to the National Archives and Records Agency
at College Park, MD. This is a major part of what is known as the National Archives. As such, to the best of my knowledge, the records are accessible to the public,
which would not require applying for a Freedom of Information Act disclosure. (Rabe, have I got this right?)

Second, the material, itself, appears to deal mainly with codes and the collection of intelligence, rather than the intelligence, itself. I saw very little that would suggest
that there might be real intelligence to learn here. If it is the mechanics of intelligence collection in WW II that you are interested in, then these records might prove
helpful.

Regards,
Richard

[Richard T Eger]

From TOH!:

Rabe Anton
Re: FOIA and NSA and NARA and . . .
Fri May 19 02:00:14 2000


Richard,

Yes, you have the deposition of the former NSA materials
at NARA exactly right. The NARA depository for them
is located at Archives II - College Park, Maryland.
I believe the record group is 457, but this could be
quite wrong.

RA

[Richard T Eger]

From TOH!:

Richard T. Eger
FOIA
Fri May 19 02:08:42 2000


Dear Rabe,

Am I correct that an FOIA application won't be needed to access these?

Regards,
Richard

[Richard T Eger]

From TOH!:

Rabe Anton
Re: FOIA FYI
Fri May 19 03:46:56 2000


Richard,

The records retired to the National Archives fall into
the public domain, and there is no need invoke the
FOIA to gain access to them.

In truth, the situation is really just a little more complicated than that. The proper name of the National Archives is the National Archives and Records Administration,
and I emphasis now the latter portion of that rubric. NARA archival facilities actually have TWO major divisions under their roofs, a records holding
area for semi-obsolete records that might be needed by their creators, and the archives proper containing wholly retired, processed, and accessioned records. The
records holding areas often contain unprocessed, classified material retired from the Departments of Defense or Energy; they are sort of "halfway houses" between the
bureaucrats and the archives per se. A FOIA would, of course, be required to initiate a review of these documents.

So far as I know, no FOIA should be required to gain access to documents accessioned by the NARA, entered in its
record groups, and made freely available to the public
in its reading rooms. There may be a tiny number of anomalies or exceptions to this such as certain parts of the Warren Report, the Nixon Tapes, etc., but by and
large, the FOIA is an absolutely redundant, irritating, expensive,
and senseless approach for NARA files.

RA

[Richard T Eger]

From TOH!:

Richard T. Eger
FOIA
Fri May 19 04:02:39 2000


Dear Rabe,

Thanks for the explanation. I'm sure Kari appreciates all the information and clarification that you have provided. The rest of us, too, have received an education.

Regards,
Richard

[Richard T Eger]

From TOH!:

Rabe Anton
Re: FOIA Kaput-J'espere
Fri May 19 04:05:40 2000


You are very welcome.

RA