Mininstry of Defence (MOD) files on Luftwaffe aircraft that have crashed in Great Britain

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Scott McIntosh
Luftwaffe aircraft and the British MOD (modern MOD)
Fri Apr 25 18:32:12 2003
195.92.168.166

Hi guys,

I just received an email regarding a crashed JU88 and Luftwaffe aircraft in general that have crashed on british soil. Really it about the MOD records on the aircraft rather than the aircraft itself. Anyway read the following then I will post my questions.

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A couple of points on the Ju88, the MOD hold all files of Luftwaffe aircraft that have crashed in Great Britain. I was also told by the MOD that the files they hold will not be released for a least 75 years! That's the law according to the MOD.
***

Firstly is the above statements true and if so WHY? surely there has been far more sensative information released before now rather than an enemy plane crashed.

Secondly if I wanted to carry out an archaeological dig on a Luftwaffe aircraft that crashed on British soil Who would I contact and am I right in thinking it would be the MOD and we would need a licence even though it was a German plane. I think I am right in thinking that the aircraft would have been crown property when it crashed onto British soil.

Regards Scott

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Trevor Matthews
Ju88 & MOD
Fri Apr 25 19:21:58 2003
195.93.50.10

You are correct on both counts. Contact RAF PMA at RAF Staverton for a licence (if you are lucky!)

Trevor

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Scott
Ju88 & MOD
Fri Apr 25 22:14:29 2003
195.92.168.166

Thanks Trevor,

I will give the licence a go after all they can only say no.

Scott

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Nick Beale
Crashed Luftwaffe aircraft
Sat Apr 26 09:49:21 2003
212.159.53.18

I'm not sure exactly what information you're after.

Surviving intelligence reports on crashed German aircraft on British soil are available, mainly in file AIR40/45 at the Public Record Office (although the file has been in use by someone else each time I've wanted it recently!) although you will find others elsewhere.

Records of interrogation of Lutwaffe airmen were released many years ago (and had been freely available in the USA before that) and are also in the AIR 40 series Nos. 2394–2426. Again other interrogation reports do crop up in other files.

If you want files released that are still not public, you used to write to the Citizens Charter Unit (but I don't know if that still exists: try the UK Online website). Otherwise, write to the Departmental Records Officer at the Ministry of Defence (www.mod.gov.uk).

As to why things are still secret: the UK has no tradition of open government, quite the opposite. The present government came to power promising a Freedom of Information law. Then reasons were found to water this down progressively and delay implementation year after year. I'm sure this has more to do with a prevailing culture than the policies of any one party.

There is legislation about digging wrecks, because so many of them are in effect someone's grave.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Scott
Digging wrecks
Sat Apr 26 10:10:37 2003
195.92.168.169

Hi Nick

thanks for the info. I know a bit about digging wrecks and have made quite a few interesting discoveries.

The law states that a licence for recovery of a military aircraft will not be given if live ordanance is believed to be on board!!

So why is it that most wreck sites have ammo of some sort in the hundreds on board when we dig sites. This must be reported to the police by law.

The law also states that if human remains are belived to be on board then a licence will not be issued.

So why is it a licence is granted when most of the body is still on board but the crew member has a grave or is it that because there is a grave it is assumed that they recovered the body.

The Protection of military remains act 1986 does state both of these statement above and the more I am into this hobby the more it becomes apparent that the MOD dont really have a clue what down under the earth. It is not really their fault as they have just been passed on the records of previous experiance. It may become that one day no digs are allowed because so much previously unknown material is coming out of digs. Certainly there are quite a lot of mistakes made on the part of the PMA when they issue a licence.

Regards Scott

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

John Vasco
Crash reports and digs...
Sun Apr 27 15:01:00 2003
195.92.67.208

In addition to the reference Nick has posted, you should also try the following at the PRO: AIR22/266 and AVIA15/737.

With regard to digs over the years, I will choose my words carefully. Not all digs in the past have been carried out in accordance with how the MOD would have wished them to be undertaken. That is why eventually an Act of Parliament was passed to try to regulate such matters. As a result, there have been occasional cases that have gone to court. It is considered (understandably) a sensitive issue when the possibility of the remains of aircrew being found in the wreckage exists.

Hope this helps.


John V.