PRO WW II reports of flying disks, foo fighters, etc.

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

indianer
Unidentified aerial objects during Schweinfurt Raid..(long).
Sun May 4 08:47:05 2003
202.79.59.15

Before you label me a crackpot, let me say that I am not suggesting that UFOs were present during the Schweinfurt raid - only that internal USAAF reports suggested that some unidentified objects might have been present in the sky, and one B-17 no. 026 (?)flew through them without apparent damage.
Why I am posting it here is because the incident seems to belong in the realm of the air historian rather than a UFOlogist - believer or skeptic .

The original reference is (red alert !) Martin Caidin's "Black Thursday" where he describes the incident. It could be dismissed as so much fluff were it not for the fact that one of the sources was tracked down by researchers in the Public Records Office at Kew, in 2000.
The source extract : (all original spelling, punctuation etc. retained)
The file in which the document can be found is: AIR 40/464. At the top right of the document is a rubber stamp giving details of circulation to:
>>
1. Col Kingman Douglas
2. A.I.3. ? (W/Cdr Smith)
3. A.I. 2. ? (W/Cdr Heath)

EKG. TELEGRAM EN CLAIR 4112
Recd. AMCS. 171129a hrs Oct.43

To- OIAWW, OIAJX, OISHL, HBC, AMY.

From - OIPNT

IMPORTANT - CONFIDENTIAL

8 BC 0-1079-E
Annex to Intelligence Report Mission Shweinfurt 16 October 1943

306 Group reporta partially unexploded 20mm shell imbedded above the panel in the cockpit of A/C number 412 bearing the following figures 19K43. The Group Ordnance Officer believes the steel composing the shell is of inferior grade. 348th Group reports a cluster of disks observed in the path of the formation near Schweinfurt, at the time there were no E/A above. Discs were described as silver coloured - one inch thick and three inches in diameter. They were gliding slowly down in very uniform cluster. A/C 026 was unable to avoid them and his right wing went directly through a cluster with absolutely no effect on engines or plane surface. One of the discs was heard striking tail assembly but no explosion was observed. About 20 feet from these discs a mass of black debris of varying sizes in clusters of 3 by 4 feet. Also observed 2 other A/C flying through silver discs with no apparent damage. Observed discs and debris 2 other times but could not determine where it came from.

Copies to:-

P.R. & A.I.6.
D.B.Ops
War Room
D.A.T.
A.I.3. (USA) (Action 2 copies) >>

Questions :
1)The document, is apparently, genuine. Comments ?
2) Could it be a new time of flak/Duppel/any other German innovation ?
3) How is it that definitive histories like Martin Middlebrook's account make no mention of this ?
Full article here :

http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/abwatch/naziufo/naziufo7.html

(Well-researched article demolishing the German UFO mythos quite comprehensively)

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Ed West
Unidentified objects
Sun May 4 17:57:43 2003
64.12.97.7

I like the words "demolished" and "mythos" but they do little in the way of explaining what appear to be credible reports by credible observers. It's like saying this really happened but it couldn't have. I suggest a review of initial reaction by the U.S. Army Air Force of reports by pilots of the Me 163. "You saw a what? It climbed at what rate?" Need I remind everyone there was a war on and no one was in the mood for fun and games much less reports of impossible objects. And always on the lookout for signs of aircrew fatigue, which had to be nipped in the bud immediately or risk disaster.
These reports exist and there are a number of them. For the curious, I recommend checking records under the key words "flak rocket" and "flak device" as opposed to any other word or words. There are also a substantial number of wartime records that remain classified in the U.S. and in England. Perhaps I will see the truth about this mystery in my lifetime, perhaps not. I do not recommend anyone waste their time with this. And I urge caution to any who do. Secrets are always kept for a reason.

Regards,
Ed

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

indianer
In this specific case....
Sun May 4 18:13:21 2003
202.79.59.15

.. Should it not be a clear-cut case for debunking or ratification ? The proposition is clear...possible discs of small diameter in clear air on Oct 14, 1943... hitting at least one aircraft..the solution should be, too...