Luftwaffe Planquadrate map system - 5

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Simon
Location of Crash Sites
Tue Jul 15 07:32:47 2003
172.187.172.241

Can anybody suggest where I can get a map from that I can use to plot the grid location of claimed kills? Does anybody know if the map is reproduced on an Internet site?

Regards,

Simon

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Horst Weber
grid-maps
Tue Jul 15 18:46:12 2003
217.237.117.239

Simon !

Which Airforce is your desire ? German Luftwaffe grid-coordinates are considerable easy to transfer to wideley used maps. The allied used grid sytem for Western and Central Europe in WW I and WW II has its roots in the french national cadastrial grid system "Nord de Guerre".
All the German topographcal maps, in the official scale 1 : 25.000 were undertaken a revise and the General Staff of the Geographical section of U.S. Army gave them the new grid, but the base of the map was the old German print of 1:25:000. If your desire is the official U.S. grid map, you can draw the grid onto an existing map.

Hope, this helps,

Horst Weber

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Simon
MAPS!!!
Tue Jul 15 19:09:20 2003
195.93.49.11

Horst!!!!!

Thanks for you reply, its German grids into normal european map that I'm after ... can you help!

Regards,

Simon

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Don Caldwell
Keep checking the JG 26 site.....
Wed Jul 16 00:30:39 2003
216.176.25.242

...( http://jg26.vze.com/ ). Les Butler is finishing a fighter grid map. After a final check, we should have it posted in a month. It'll also be linked to the Tony Wood site, but the actual mechanics are up to Les.

HTH and Horrido!

Don

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Laurent Rizzotti
Translation of grids codes
Wed Jul 16 16:28:21 2003
195.6.104.32

This page

http://www.stormbirds.com/eagles/research/gradnetz/gradnetz.html

explains you how to translate a German grid code to normal longitude/latitude, then you have to check a map for more details.

In a good part of claims, the first part of the code, giving the general area, is not given. A map at the end of the same Internet page will give you all great areas in Europe.
For example, Denmark is in 05 Ost or 15 Ost depending on the precise point.

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Roman
rilar@arh.ru
JG54
Thu Jul 24 05:06:42 2003
212.14.163.110

Meine Kameraden!
Wo ist der Unfallort des JG54-Flugzeugen:
22.08.1943 4./JG54 FW190A-4 w/n 5808 Qu18212
und
29.08.1943 4./JG54 FW190A-5 w/n 1477 Qu0823
Roman

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Christer Bergström
Re: JG54
Thu Jul 24 09:38:51 2003
81.224.233.247

Qu18212 Ramushevo area/Gebiet (region south of Lake Ilmen)

Qu0823 area between/Gebiet zwischen Staraya Russa and Dno

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Roman
Christer
Thu Jul 24 13:29:51 2003
212.14.163.107

Liebe Christer! Viele Dank fur Ihre Hilfe!
Roman

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

mark Sheppard
Pl. Qu
Sun Jul 27 20:56:23 2003
194.222.231.236

Christer

Interesting that you have thant information. Do you have a map or key of the Pl. Qu system aruond Leningrad.

I was also wondering where 18212 was. On 23rd August 1943 Fw190 A4, W.Nr 5808 'White B' was classed as 100% lost when it crash landed due to flak damage at location Pl.Qu.18212. The pilot was injured but returned safely to his unit.

As you might know, Fw190 A-5 W.Nr1227 'Whirte A' was recovered from Pl.Qu.20124. As it was recvoered from the region of Voibakala, on the Leningrad railway area, hopefully you might be able to confirm this.

Could you also confirm how much information you have, perhaps off board if necessary.

regards

Mark

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Don Caldwell
A late-war fighter grid map has been posted....
Fri Jul 25 16:46:06 2003
216.176.25.159

...on the JG 26 site ( http://jg26.vze.com/ ) as the first link (Jägergradnetzkarte). That's now the name of the page itself, but this will be changed to remove the umlaut, since Windows PCs tend to freak out at umlauts. It will be linked to Tony Woods' site today. Other folks can link to it if they wish -- LWAG and the Dutch study group are naturals. It's there for enthusiasts to copy and use themselves, but note that it is copyrighted, so its use in the publications of others is prohibited. (If you want to use it or refer to it on your own web site, link to it, don't copy it.)

We tried to identify the major geographic & political features, cities, airfields, and "targets". We (meaning Les) will continue to make changes as warranted.

Your comments are welcome.

Horrido!

Don

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Rabe Anton
Re: A late-war fighter grid map has been posted....
Fri Jul 25 20:48:59 2003
198.26.120.13

Servus, Don!

Wonderful to have the Jägergradnetzkarte posted. Unfortunately, uhhhhhhhhhh, the, uuuhhhhhhh, map squares
can't be read!

Any chance to leave this posting intact and supplement it with a series of subsections in a larger size, large enough so that the map squares can be read?

RA

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

David Ransome
Superb map........
Fri Jul 25 21:55:22 2003
195.92.168.168

....and very useful. I found that I could click on an area and the expanded map came up, and clicking on the url under the map brought up a larger version that I had no difficulty in reading.

I particularly appreciate all the locations that have been identified!

Thanks and regards

David

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Rabe Anton
Pl.Qu. Grid Map
Fri Jul 25 22:35:52 2003
198.26.120.13

Thanks, David! I went back and discovered that I could click on portions of the map and enlarge them. Don might want to think about a printed notice to this effect.
Now, can I print the enlarged portions some way in order to get a real hold-in-your-hand paper map?!

RA

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Don Caldwell
Instructions for a printable map
Fri Jul 25 23:15:20 2003
216.176.25.176

There are a number of ways to do this. I make a modest living writing stuff in Word, so I pasted the six .gif images into a Word document. Not having a blueprint-sized printer, I don't know how to handle the full-size file. the steps:
1. Click on one of the thumbnails (the small maps) to open it.
2. Right-click on it.
3. "Save as" something on your own computer.
4. Do this for the other five thumbnails.
5. Create a new Word document.
6. "Insert" each .gif file in the document. Each will take a separate page. The "natural" size of the images is 8.5" x 7.5"
7. Save & print the file.
8. Cut and paste (literally!) the six pages together to give you a nice ~2 foot square map.
9. If your printer can handle 11" x 17" paper, you can expand each image to 10"x 11", allowing you to create a larger map.
10. usw, usw....

Any techie can probably suggest a better method.

WRT posting instructions on clicking on the thumbnails to enlarge the image: you've already figured it out, and frankly you were the only one I was worried about ;-)

Horrido!

Don

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Les Butler
More Info
Fri Jul 25 23:36:18 2003
195.92.194.12

The map images are in gif format, and quite large to enable placenames to be clearly read. Should anyone wish to resample down (particularly the full map), please follow these suggestions to obtain the best result. -

1. Open the image in your graphics prog, PSP, etc.

2. Increase the colour depth to 24bit/16million - something higher anyway.

3. Resize down - sharpen the result (once or twice) to your satisfaction.

You can keep the colour depth here at 24bit, and save as a Tif, Bmp, Jpg, etc, OR reduce back to Gif (256) colours. Whichever you choose -

5. Use the "Save As" command to save under a different name. That way you have the original in case you aren't sattisfied with the first attempt.

Basically, increasing the colour depth before resizing produces better results with 256 col images.

I hope this helps you get better results.

Les

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Horst weber
grid-map
Sat Jul 26 17:17:43 2003
217.237.119.129

Donald !

This is a great overview map of the German Gradnetzmeldeverfahren.

Now, anyone can create a map of his point of interest in research by using a map with latitudial parralels and longditudial meridian grids.

This is the system, how the Gradnetz is based on. It is no problem to convert it even to 1: 25.000 official maps of Germany or whereever. You only need the international logditudinal an latitudinal grid, which is in almost each map.

Donald, good work !

Horst Weber

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Nick Beale
I'm not a techie but...
Sat Jul 26 09:18:38 2003
80.225.118.89

If you have Adobe Photoshop (expensive, I know), then it should be a pretty simple matter to paste the six pieces on to separate layers of a new document, align them with one another (resizing them if you wish) and print the result.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Les Butler
more
Sat Jul 26 15:28:43 2003
195.92.194.14

The full uncut map is also available for download on the page. Also the whole map in pdf format.

To try and help people with the printing, I am about to re-section the map into 8 sections. You can then print each section to fit on a single A4 sheet (set this in your printer software). If you have a photo quality printer the results should be excellent - I have done it. You'll then have eight A4 sheets covering the whole map which can then be edge-trimmed and back-cellotaped together if required.

Will be available in about an hour. If people have problems they can contact me direct (save bandwidth here); email address on webpage.
Les

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Sam Harkus
Thanks
Fri Jul 25 23:43:50 2003
195.92.194.12

This is an excellent work. These maps are very rare, and I have never seen one in such completeness or coverage previously. Good job
SH

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Wybe Buising
wbuising@zonnet.nl
nice chart
Sat Jul 26 17:05:16 2003
62.59.0.30

Nice chart you posted!! Incredible what a information is available tpday.

Here some small comments for Holland:

Grid 44/DK: Oost Vlielland Is. should read Vlieland Is.
Grid 53/HL: Sofsterberg should read Soesterberg a/f, the position of this airfield is not situated here but a little to the south closer to the town of Utrecht, i.e. away from the water and between Utrecht and Amersfoort.
Grid 43/HK: Schipol a/f should read Schiphol a/f.
Grid 63/GO: Twente a/f should read Twenthe a/f
Grid 53/GL-GM: the 'island' which is shown here was made after(!) the war and is called Flevoland, i.e. we diked the Zuiderzee (today called IJsselmeer) and drained all the water out for that piece of country.

I'm missing the airfield Bergen (near Alkmaar)in the prov. Noord Holland.

Reg.
Wybe

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Les Butler
Thanks
Sat Jul 26 18:27:27 2003
195.92.168.175

Thanks Wybe,

I will speak with Don regarding the name changes (in case its simply a matter of language/spelling used on map), and make any changes he suggests.

The island (Grid 53/GL-GM) I will remove and the airfield, Bergen, I shall include - using referenced coordinates.

I thank you so much for your comments! It really helps in making this a useful resource for fellow enthusiasts.

Les

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Don Caldwell
Typos & regional preferences
Sun Jul 27 23:31:40 2003
216.176.25.241

In addition to Les's comments --

Vlieland, Schiphol and Soesterberg were misspelled (probably my handwriting was misread) & will be corrected. Twente is right out of my reference, The Times Atlas. I tried to use spelling current in WWII to English-speakers, with the exception of those locations with well-known German spellings.

Don

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Co de Swart
Fightergrid-map
Sun Jul 27 14:24:21 2003
62.234.123.201

Hi Don/Les/Tony, Wybe did already comment from Holland.
Good job!
Last(?) question: you introduced this item as a 'late-war' example, is there known 'a date from which day used' or was not that 'everywhere' the same date and what could be the difference from the previous-used one?
Regards, Co de Swart (SGLO)

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Jukka Kauppinen
Re: A late-war fighter grid map has been posted....
Sun Jul 27 18:13:20 2003
212.246.242.62

Wonderful map! Thanks!

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

George Hopp
Don, and Les did a fantastic job ...
Mon Jul 28 02:13:51 2003
216.191.233.225

that I was easily able to save, and that printed wonderfully well. Thank you for all your work in creating it.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Marcel Hogenhuis
marcel.hogenhuis@planet.nl
I am sorry to spoil a very good initiative but...
Mon Jul 28 15:01:07 2003
217.122.92.115

Hello Don,

I warmly welcome this magnificent gesture to put such a helpful map on the internet! Looking for Venlo airfield two mistakes immediately made me cautious:
1. Venlo airfield was east of the river Maas in the Netherlands, on the runways 'LN5' was painted as a map reference.
2. the German-Dutch borderline in south-east Netherlands is EAST of the river Maas. This might be an error for the position of the river OR the position of the black borderline, I don't know.

So, the job is almost finished but not totally. I really feel sorry to say this because it is clear how much work it is to put such a map together. Please don't regard my remark not as criticism for the cause of criticism!!

Best wishes, Marcel Hogenhuis
Study Group Venlo Airfield in WW-2

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Dénes Bernád
A minor typo and a note
Tue Jul 29 01:36:52 2003
149.99.113.126

Let me line up to the people who congratulated you for posting this valuable reference on-line. Well done!

Unfortunately (for me), the map is cropped at Eastern Hungary, so it covers only partially the area in Central Europe I am interested in.
By comparing your map with the wartime map of Hungary, it appears to me that the borders drawn on your map do not coincide with Hungary's wartime boundaries. I can help you in this matter, if you wish.

I would like to note a minor typo: there is no 'f' after the city Veszprém, Hungary. Also, Parndorf is located in today's Austria (then inside the IIIrd Reich).

Finally, I would like to suggest to mark the capital of Slovakia, Bratislava (Pressburg, Pozsony), as it would make navigation a bit easier.

Keep up the good work!

Dénes

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Les Butler
** Please Read **
Tue Jul 29 04:36:06 2003
195.92.168.172

Would interested parties please read the "Important Note" posted on the webpage, http://www.butler98.freeserve.co.uk/jnetz.htm

This information should have been there from the start - for which I am most sorry!

Would future comments kindly be directed to my email address on the page as I'll receive them quicker and will be able to respond likewise.

Regards and thanks,
Les

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Francisco E. Quiñones
grids
Sat Aug 2 07:36:46 2003
66.50.102.64

WOW Les, just fantastic.THANKS