IWM microfilms of aircraft loss records of the Luftwaffe Gen.Qu.M. 6. Abt. - 20

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Joe
Hptmn Kurt Geisler, 1/SKG10, 06.09.43.
Sat Oct 25 12:45:13 2003
195.92.168.170

I am seeking any form of official confirmation that it was indeed Geisler's FW190 that crashed at Hawstead, Suffolk, 2145hrs 06.09.1943, any suggestions please?
Thanks
Joe.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Chris Goss
Re: Hptmn Kurt Geisler, 1/SKG10, 06.09.43.
Mon Oct 27 06:58:33 2003
80.40.78.28

2 FW 190s were lost that night-Brier's and Geisler's. 2 85 Sqn claims were made-Howitt 3 miles south of Clacton at 2156 hrs and Houghton at Hawstead 2145 hrs. The 'K' report is not helpful about the latter but I believe that a subsequent report (newspaper?) makes mention of the rank of the pilot as being an officer hence the assumption it was Geisler. Incidentally it was 3/SKG 10 not 1/SKG 10

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Andrew Arthy
Re: Hptmn Kurt Geisler, 1/SKG10, 06.09.43.
Sat Oct 25 14:38:35 2003
129.180.4.204

Hi Joe,

From Jim P.'s loss list:

Fw190A-5 W.Nr 840 006 GEISLER, Hptm. Kurt Stab I. SKG 10 gelbe 1 + 06-Sep-43 MIA, shot down by a Mosquito Mk.XII of 85 Sq. (Houghton & Patson). RK. 300FF Kanal Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #11)-Vol.21; The Blitz, Then & Now, p.294 txt; Obermaier p117 Hawstead, Bury St. Edmunds, Suffolk 100% F

Other I./S.K.G.10 loss for that operation was:

Fw190A-5 W.NR 51714 Breier, Uffz. Helmut 1. SKG 10 grüne 4 + 06-Sep-43 MIA, believed shot down by a Mosquito Mk.XII of 85 Sq. (Howitt & Irving). Kanal Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #11)-Vol.21; The Blitz, Then & Now, p.294 txt Crashed into the sea 3 miles off Clacton. 100% F

Cheers,
Andrew A.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Joe
Geisler
Sat Oct 25 17:19:00 2003
195.92.168.175

Thanks Andrew, The pilot of the FW190 that crashed a Hawstead is now buried at Cannock Chase, Block 1, grave 465, unnamed, if proof could be found that this was Geisler's aircraft, his grave could be named.
Cheers Joe.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

jerry brewer
suggestion
Mon Oct 27 20:25:35 2003
195.92.67.71

Hi,
Just a suggestion ,
I have in the past tied down a few loose ends by researching the local police war diaries, This sometimes gives information of great use.
These diaries, if they still exist in the area in question, Would be either with your local police force museum, or might have been given to a local 'archive'.
Try contacting the Public relations officer first , a google search might find the contact details.
Cheers
Jerry

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Joe
Suggestion.
Tue Oct 28 18:38:51 2003
195.92.168.171

Unfortunately the records of the old West Suffolk Constabulary were lost when the Force was amalgamated with East Suffolk, the only reference to this crash in the local newspapers is very vague, as was common due to censorship, and no reference to rank was made, the only local info is in a letter to; Director of Personal Services, Air Ministry, 73-77 Oxford St, London W1, stating that "Owing to excessive burning and mutilation there were no clothing or personal effects with the exception of a French Civilian Identity document and this was handed to the Intelligence Officer of the R.A.F. unit dealing with this incident"
But in two days at the PRO I failed to find the unit.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

jerry brewer
one last thought
Tue Oct 28 22:35:48 2003
195.92.67.74

Hi
One last thought,
Do the civil defence regional bulletins survive for the area ?
They maybe be in other counties archives , but cover your area.
For example , for some reason the devon & cornwall ones are in Taunton.
I presume you have done the german war dead files at the PRO, air 16 ( or was it air 22 ), I could look out the reference if you need it.
Cheers
Jerry

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Dave
Ju 87R-2 wk.nr.0875709
Sat Nov 8 06:03:53 2003
210.55.33.190

Hi all

Does anyone have a loss report for this aircraft ?

TIA

regards
Dave

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Jim P.
Re: Ju 87R-2 wk.nr.0875709
Sun Nov 9 01:47:28 2003
67.242.219.170

Ju 87R-2 5709 Klaudl, Ltn. Eberhardt (F)/Hullen, Ogefr. Hans (Bf) I. St.G. 5 28-May-42 Reported lost after crash. Crew returned. (Bf POW?) Finnland Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #6)-Vol. 9; Valtonen, LW Pohjoinen Sivusta, p.370 Lizabucht 100% F

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Dave
Thanx Jim (nm)
Sun Nov 9 01:56:34 2003
219.88.40.235

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Voldemar
Information about losses of Bf-110
Mon Nov 10 08:07:39 2003
194.44.246.250

Hello !
I need information about losses of Bf-110:
1.22.06.1941.near Sambow(Zambrow)KIA;
Who have information about losses (Bf-110)in Western Ukraine (West of Soviet Union)in 1941-1944, region Lwiw-Stanislaw and other.
With the best wishes, Voldemar

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Marcel Hogenhuis
marcel.hogenhuis@planet.nl
Bf110, check Bergstrom
Mon Nov 10 12:07:30 2003
217.122.92.115

Hello Voldemar,

Though I am no expert at all for the air war over the Soviet Union, you better check the volumes of Christer Bergstrom, my Bf110-File shows this:
Bf110E (Wnr. 3767), 4/SKG 210 (Zambrow), Flak, 2 MIA, 100% damaged
Bf110D-3 (Wnr. 4291), 4/SKG 210 (Zambrow), Flak, 2 KIA, 100% damaged
Source: Gen.Qm.Abt.6 material losses Luftwaffe, microfilm reel no.3

Hope this helps you further! Best wishes,

Marcel Hogenhuis, Study Group Venlo Airfield in WW-2

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Voldemar
Losses Bf-110
Mon Nov 10 12:32:51 2003
194.44.246.250

Hello,Marcel!
What are you thinking about Bf-110 losses in Stanislaw-region, at the Carphefians-mountains?
With the best wishes, Voldemar.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Marcel Hogenhuis
Bf110 losses 22 June 1941
Tue Nov 11 09:17:17 2003
217.122.92.115

Hello Voldemar,

I don't think that my thoughts about those losses will matter much, but here is what I could extract from my Bf110 File on that dreadful day:

Bf110E-2 3996 Stab/I.SKG 210 DJ+MN damaged by shots, 40%(source: W.Green/586 (DJ+MN)
Bf110E-2 2933 2/ZG 26, Rosten, crashlanded due to air combat damage 20%
Bf110C 2206 Stab/KG 55, Labunie, shot at, 40%
Bf110E-3 2402 Stab/St.G. 1, Thorn, crashlanded, 60%
Bf110E-3 2325 4/(F) 33, Tilsit, crashlanded, 20%
Bf110E/3 2333 2/(F) 33, Orodno area, 3 KIA, 100%
Bf110C-5 2231 3/(F) 11, (Lemberg-Sambow), 2 KIA, 100%
Bf110E 3794 Stab/I.SKG 210, ? 30%
Bf110E 3796 2/SKG 210, (Pinsk), shot at, 2 OK, 100%
Bf110E 3767 4/SKG 210, (Zambrow), Flak, 2 MIA, 100%
Bf110D-3 4291 4/SKG 210, (Zambrow), Flak, 2 KIA, 100%
Bf110F-2 3937 4/SKG 210, Rogeznica, collision with another aircraft (Bf110/4064), 40%
Bf110E-1 4064 6/SKG 210, Rogeznica, coll. Bf110/3937, 15%
Bf110D-3 4385 4/ZG 26, Suwalki, crashlanded, 30%
Bf110D-3 4333 St.St./St.G. 3, Tatoi, bellylanded, 60%

Unless other sources are shown, all Bf110 losses were taken from the Gen.Qm.Abt.6 Luftwaffe losses lists, microfilm reel no.3

This is all I have about this, I hope it might help you further! Good luck,

Marcel Hogenhuis
Study Group Venlo Airfield in WW-2

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

John Vasco
Marcel, those two you mention...
Mon Nov 10 12:39:37 2003
195.92.67.74

Full details as follows:

Bf 110 E-2
S9+FM
3767
Lt. Dieter Henzler (FF)
Ogefr. Konrad Fassler (BF)
Did not return from combat mission.
Location: Andrzejov

Bf 110 D-3
S9+LM
4291
Uffz. Willi Bach (FF)
Ogefr. Gerhard Kretschmann (BF)
Did not return from combat mission.
Location: Andrzejov

As recorded in my book 'Sting of the Luftwaffe' from Namentliche Verlustmeldugen unit returns.

John V.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Voldemar
For John Vasco
Mon Nov 10 13:37:00 2003
194.44.246.250

Thank you, Where is /Location: Andrzejov/?

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

John Vasco
Re: For John Vasco
Mon Nov 10 18:10:44 2003
195.92.67.75

Voldemar,

I honestly don't know.

John V.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

gghopp
Andrejewka (?)
Mon Nov 10 23:35:40 2003
216.191.233.218

That's the closest I have seen in Mattiello's book, and is 70 km East Northeast of Witebsk (book's spelling).

Hope this helps,
George

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Marcel Hogenhuis
Thanks John !
Tue Nov 11 08:58:04 2003
217.122.92.115

Hello John,

Many thanks for this more extensive info and my apologies when I thought of Christer first! My confused brain reacted on the input 'airwar' and 'Russia' first, haha!

Last weekend I tried to make sense of M.Balss second book about Nachtjagd losses. Though I found an astonishing lot of "new" Werkenummer that do fit into what I call my Bf110 File (database), it is a pity that he did not cross check with his first book: in some cases good names in the first book were "updated" with mispelled names in the second volume (v.Stillfried, III.NJG 1 for example).
However, the more Werkenummer I put into my database, the more it becomes obvious that a lot of numbers, taken from the Gen.Qm.Abt.6 loss lists, must have been wrong (or misread by me), this can be deduced from different aircraft versions (in the 35xx range it is unlikely to find a Bf110F-4 etc.). The whole idea to put all Bf110's I could find into a database was, that for my I.NJG 1 subject I came across many accidents and losses where I had my doubts about the validity of such references. So I discovered that what seems to be a Bf110 of 'my' I.NJG 1 (19-9-1941, Bf110C-1, Wnr.3262 1/NJG 1, FlH.Echterdingen, engine failure, 10% damaged, microfilm reel 4) must have been in reality a Bf110 of Nachtjagdschule 1. THIS IS THE REAL STUFF about this sort of research.

Well, we could write about this for hours, but I better go hunting for your books first! All the best,

Marcel Hogenhuis
Study Group Venlo Airfield in WW-2

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Ota Jirovec
Ofw. Karl Pfeiffer, JG 2
Thu Nov 13 12:16:40 2003
146.102.174.12

Hello all,

I am looking for the information of the above mentioned pilot, who achieved some 16 kills with I. and II./JG 2 during 1940-1942 before being killed in action, presumably on January 8, 1943. Does anybody have usual loss data (Werknummer, subtype, location, cause of his death....). Also, just for a case he was shot down in aerial combat, any idea which Allied unit could be responsible? Many thanks in advance for any help.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

John Beaman
Re: Ofw. Karl Pfeiffer, JG 2
Thu Nov 13 18:10:25 2003
24.163.16.13

Fw190A-4, WNr 0662 of 5./JG 2 ,08-Jan-43, KIA in Luftkampf with 2 P-40s. Loss report says 16.1. Tunisia, Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #8)-Vol.14; Ring, JG 2 loss list, p.10, Fondouk. Some sources say 11 Absch.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Ota Jirovec
Re: Ofw. Karl Pfeiffer, JG 2
Thu Nov 13 22:44:59 2003
160.218.151.70

John,

many thanks for your kind help. Just for your info: Pfeiffer appears to have 16 claims, not 11: 11 were achieved by the end of 1941 (all with 3./JG 2 - according to Prien´s "Jagdfliegerverbände" series Vol. 4/I and 5) + 5 more with 5. and 6. Staffel during 1942 (as per Tony Wood´s files).

Ota

[Richard T Eger]

This is an administrative message to place this series of topics in correct order.

Regards,
Richard