IWM microfilms of aircraft loss records of the Luftwaffe Gen.Qu.M. 6. Abt. - 21

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Rune Rautio
Ju 87R WNr 5826
Thu Nov 13 21:39:48 2003
193.217.38.209

Ju 87R-2 WNr 5826 of IV.(St)/LG 1 or I./StG 5 was lost in northwest Russia sometimes during the War, but I have not seen that bird in the lists of RLM Qu. 6. Abt. It might be registered by mistake under an other Luftflotte. Anyone that have worked with the Ju 87 losses that can help me out here?

Rune

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

G.R.Morrison
WNr.5826
Fri Nov 14 01:41:45 2003
165.121.133.126

I have WNr.5826 as a Ju 87B-2 of II/St.G.1,
Ogefr. Gottfried Duermuth killed in the crash,
29.August 1942, Debetonorowka
The Bordfunker/Schuetz is not listed.

Reference:
LW Quartermaster Loss reports (microfilm roll #9, Vol.16)

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Zamax
KTB, RL and BAMA Freiburg?
Fri Nov 14 13:35:56 2003
212.210.71.3

Perhaps I'm too stupit to understand myself, but someone can explain me what KTB, RL (for ex RL 2 III / 184) and BAMA Freiburg exatly stay for?
I suppose tha KTB are something like war diaries, RL are microfiches and BAMA Freiburg is a site the place of the Bundesarchive.
I'm partially right?

Another question:
In the stormbird.com site (wonderfull) is transcript the files RLM 2 III/1170 through 1172, but what means all the abbreviations used in this example?

Gen.Qu.6.Abt.Nr.880/45 g.Kdos(V) v. 24.1.45 lfd.Nr.13


TIA
Zamax

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Steve W.
Abbreviations
Fri Nov 14 17:42:50 2003
152.163.252.131

KTB = Kriegstagebuch (war diary or war journal).
RL = Reich, Luftwaffe (refers to a Signatur (record group) at BA-MA containing Luftwaffe documents from the period of the Third Reich).
BA-MA = Bundesarchiv-Militärarchiv (National Archive - Military Archive) at Freiburg im Breisgau in southwest Germany.
RLM 2 III/1170-72 = Reich - Luftfahrtministerium, Signatur 2 (Generalstab der Luftwaffe) III (Generalquartiermeister)/folders 1170-72 (Personalverluste, Materialverluste; Jagd-, Nachtjagdverbände, 12.44 - 01.45).
Gen.Qu.6.Abt.Nr.880/45 g.Kdos.(V) v. 24.1.45 lfd.Nr.13 = Generalquartiermeister (6th Branch), No. 880/45, Top Secret, dated 24 January 1945, copy No. 13.

If you are going to work with this material, I would strongly suggest you learn some German.

Steve W.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Zamax
Thank you very much (nt) (nm)
Mon Nov 17 13:04:20 2003
212.210.71.3

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Larry Hickey
ID of Bf110C WNr 3118
Tue Nov 18 21:40:47 2003
24.8.172.26

Looking for info to confirm ID of Bf-110C W.Nr. 3118, which was reportedly assigned to I./ZG 2 during 1940. Can anyone confirm this info, provide its unit code or photos of this plane, or reveal its ultimate fate?

Thanks,

Larry Hickey

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Chris Goss
Re: ID of Bf110C WNr 3118
Tue Nov 18 21:53:57 2003
80.40.83.183

Wk Nr 3118 was coded 3M+KK o2 2/ZG 2 and on the unit as at 12 Aug 40

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

John Vasco
Re: ID of Bf110C WNr 3118
Tue Nov 18 22:58:56 2003
195.92.67.67

3118 was a 'C-2' sub-variant built between September 1939 and January 1940 by Messerschmitt, according to the Petrick/Mankau book.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Larry Hickey
W.Nr. 3118
Wed Nov 19 01:31:12 2003
24.8.172.26

Thanks John and Chris for your reply. Chris, what is your source for that W.Nr. being on service 12/8/40? Is this a photo or some unit plane roster, or a log book? Are the two of you familiar with the photo of the W.Nr. on this plane which generated my inquiry?

Thanks again,

Larry Hickey

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Chris Goss
Re: W.Nr. 3118
Wed Nov 19 08:57:36 2003
194.128.148.113

Not aware of the photo and the details came from a captured document (which helped to identify a 1/ZG 2 ac dig I was involved in a few years ago)

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Marcel Hogenhuis
Bf110 identity
Wed Nov 19 08:58:10 2003
217.122.92.115

Hello Larry,

For what it is worth, here are the raw data from my Bf110 database:

There might be a picture of the Bf110 (Wnr.3118) in A. van Ishoven, Messerschmitt Bf110 at war (London, 1985, Ian Allan Ltd.) page 36. The description says that it was a Bf110C-4 from I.ZG 2 but I agree with the other respondants that C-2 is the correct subtype.

About the final faith of this aircraft:
Bf110C-2 (Wnr. 3118) from 15/NJG 5 (C9+FZ) crashed/disappeared in the night of 21/22-9-1943 near Kurisches Haff, desoriented, crew of 2 missing, 100% loss Sources: Gen.Qm.Abt.6 Luftwaffe losses, microfilm reel 11, H.Höhler, Gemeinschaft der Jagdflieger - Verluste der Nachtjagdverbaende (compilation) /page 130. According to M.Balss first book (page 124), the date was 21/22-8-1943 but without a Namentliche Verlustmeldung (loss report) I prefer the primary source (Reel 11)

Hoping that this does help you further, all the best,

Marcel Hogenhuis
Study Group Venlo Airfield in WW-2

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Andy Fletcher
Loss Returns
Sun Dec 21 18:06:49 2003
12.151.162.13


Hi All,

Are the Luftwaffe Quartermaster Generals Loss Returns (ObdL Genst. Gen. Qu.6 Abt (1c)) re-produced anywhere on the internet? If so what is the URL and if not where can I obtain them and what sort of price is it for a copy?

Regards

Andy Fletcher

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

G.R.Morrison
LW Qm Loss Reports
Sun Dec 21 21:20:12 2003
64.91.162.165

They're not on the web.

The IWM in London has them, on microfilm (12 rolls, not fiche). These are not complete. 1944 is missing, and there are numerous microfiche sheets relating to flying schools, etc. that are not included in the IWM collection, but the BA has available.

They are not cheap. It was a while ago that I bought my first, and I would not be surprized if they were more now.

You may not realize, but non-aircraft losses are included on some, such as the paratrooper casualties on Crete in May 1941.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Andy Fletcher
Many thanks (nm)
Mon Dec 22 15:53:13 2003
12.151.162.11

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Bernd Barbas
Italian pilots at JG 52
Mon Dec 22 12:34:48 2003
194.45.48.11

Hello Friends ,

I am looking for an italian source about data of pilots .
I found two pilots in JG 52 :
1 )Orlando GUITARO , Fähnrich , III Gruppe . In Feb or March 45 he crashed deadly in a farmhouse nearby the airfield Weidengut / Schlesien ( Silesia ) There is no missing report existing , I have no further data !

2 )Basilo MADDALENA flew also in JG 52 , had some victories and was killed in the east , loss date and ac known .

Does anyone has more data about this both or an adress ?

Thank you for any help , Bernd Barbas

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Jim P.
Re: Italian pilots at JG 52
Mon Dec 22 14:12:26 2003
64.223.199.2

Bf 109G-6 20004 Maddalena, Ofw. Basilio 1. JG 52 wei§e 5 + 05-Jul-43 MIA after Luftkampf with Pe-2. WNr. reported as 2004. Ostfront Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #11)-Vol.19; Fast, JG 52, IV, p.97 txt 10km NNE of Tomarowka 100% F

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Gianandrea Bussi
Basilio Maddalena
Mon Dec 22 14:37:18 2003
151.30.134.150

In 1997 I've got from WASt the following informations:
Basiglio Hermann Maddalena, born at Kiel on 14 may 1913,
missing on 5 july 1943 in the Tomarowka area after a Flugeinsatz, 1./JG52.
Regards
Gianandrea Bussi

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Dave
Wk.Nr.13554 ?
Tue Jan 6 05:10:26 2004
210.55.86.218

Anyone have a loss reprt for this G-2 ?

TIA
regards
Dave

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Jim P.
Re: Wk.Nr.13554 ?
Tue Jan 6 13:35:46 2004
64.223.199.2

Bf 109G-2 13554 2. JG 52 28-Oct-42 Enemy fighters. Ostfront Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #7)-Vol.11; Fast, JG 52, IV p. 78 txt Pl.Qu. 4476 20% F

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Chris Goss
1940 I/ZG 76 Aircrew Fates
Wed Jan 7 19:21:00 2004
80.40.78.115

Can anyone give a pointer as to how, why and when the following died:

Oblt Gerhard Boehmel (1/ZG76)
Hptm Werner Hansen (1/ZG76, 3/NJG 1)
Hptm Rudolf Krzywon (3/ZG 76, 8/NJG 1, NJG 101, +Jun 44)

[Richard T Eger]

From further within the thread on TOCH!:

Jim P.
More info (codes)
Thu Jan 8 13:50:38 2004
64.223.199.2

Bf 110D-0 3325 Böhmel, Oblt. Gerhard (F)/Seifert, Fw. Rudolf (Bf) 3. NJG 3 D5+EK 20-Feb-42 KIA in Luftkampf. Bf OK. Nachtjahd Ru§land Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #5)-Vol. 8; Höhler, Deutsche Nachtjagd Personalverluste, p.62 near Kostowitschi, south of Orscha(?) 100% F

Bf 110D-0 3172 Hansen, Oblt. Werner 3. NJG 1 G9+BL 10-Feb-41 Staffelkapitän. KIA due to own Flak. Bf FSA, OK. Nachtjagd Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #3)-Vol.4; van Ishoven, Bf 110 at War, p.76; Höhler, Deutsche Nachtjagd Personalverluste, p.2; Foreman, 1941-The Turning Point, I, p.129 Wunstorf 100% F

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Chris Goss
Re: More info (codes)
Thu Jan 8 18:05:07 2004
80.40.93.78

Thanks

[Richard T Eger]

This is an administrative message to place this series of topics in correct order.

Regards,
Richard