Luftwaffe museums in Germany - 12

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

C. Herrera
Recovered Bf-109
Sun Dec 7 02:45:53 2003
4.34.205.228

Does anyone know anything about this recovered Bf-109G(?)
It's on the Phoenix Foundation Web site.

http://www.the-phoenix-foundation.com/images/photos/rec-air-me109-1-lg.jpg

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Dave
G-4
Sun Dec 7 10:08:19 2003
219.88.40.196

Hi

The Phoenix Foundation are claiming they have recovered this aircraft and several other planes and tanks on the site...which is far from the truth !
Here is what I have on it ... if you search for the Speyer Museum on Google you should find some pics of how she looks after restoration...
regards
Dave

Messerschmitt 109G-4 wk.nr. 19310 , White 3 of 4./JG52
Temporary display at the Speyer Museum , Germany

Factory codes BH+XN . This aircraft , the only known surviving G-4 , was built by
WNF of Austria in early 1943 and assigned to JG52 . At the time of its loss it was
being piloted by Lt.von Coester ( 5 victories ) . He had the nickname ‘Nesthäkchen ‘ [
Nestling ] painted above the Gruppes’ red heart emblem .On 20.3.43 Coester ditched
the aircraft in the Black Sea 20kms south east of Anapa following engine failure .
Although he was observed leaving the cockpit , he never made it to the shore alive .
The aircraft remained on the seabed until recovered by a team from UgMorGeology
Research Institute (South Sea Geology Research Institute) in 1987 and put on display
as found in the open air museum of Krasodar . Canadian collector Jeet Mahal acquired
the aircraft in 1994 and had it transferred to Aeronautical Restoration Assn. in Italy for
restoration . To facilitate the restoration of the basic airframe original radiators and
cockpit instruments were sourced in Austria and Germany , but new cowlings , spinner
and wing tips had to be scratch built . After five years of work the aircraft was rolled
out from AREAs workshop on 9.8.99 , witnessed by several ex JG52 pilots. The JG52
association is attempting to raise $480,000 USD to acquire the aircraft for their
museum .

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Mikael Olrog
An update
Mon Dec 8 17:56:56 2003
213.89.144.151

Hi Dave,

Here's the rest of the story as I've heard it and told it on my website...

/Mike

"Technikmuseum Speyer. An American bought the aircraft from Italy and traded it with the German Defence Ministry for two OV10 Broncos. The GDM traded it with Speyer in exchange for one of the Broncos and their HA 1112. The HA 1112 will be placed with another German Museum in exchange for another Bronco. Restoration complete used parts from other a/c."

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Dave
So...
Tue Dec 9 05:34:36 2003
210.55.86.197

.. is the JG52 foundation still able to buy it or is this now out of the question ?

Dave

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Critic
Re: Recovered Bf-109
Sun Dec 7 11:16:21 2003
80.72.64.10

Those Phoenix foundation - be very careful, they are deeply questionable organization!!! I do not know what they are trying to do, but their site is full of pictures of different military equipment from many museums and collections around the world. Deeply, deeply questionable matter!!!!!

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Lynn
Dave nailed it...
Sun Dec 7 18:03:02 2003
63.188.176.70

although I appreciate the link, I'll add that pic to the collection of stuff I've got on WNr 19310. I hear they're working on "recovering" a bridge in Brooklyn to be sold... ;)

Lynn

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Christer Bergström
Graf's & Grislawski's rudders come together again
Sat Jan 3 00:35:34 2004
81.225.209.126

Dear friends, I can warmly recommend all of you to spend a day or two in the vicinity of Speyer/Germany later this year.

The great news is that Hermann Graf's and Alfred Grislawski's decorated original Bf 109 rudders will come together again after sixty years! They will be put on permanent display together with the original JG 52 Bf 109 G-2, the "Nesthäkchen", plus a copy of the Graf & Grislawski book and photos & misc items at the the Technikmuseum Speyer/Germany!

It's guaranteed - those rudders are the real stuff, no copies!

It will be a true Graf & Grislawski department of that museum!

We owe Traditionsgemeinschaft JG 52 a deep gratitude for this coming true!

See:

http://www.graf-grislawski.elknet.pl/rudders.htm

Now isn't that good news for the new year!

All best,

Christer Bergström

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Hawk-Eye
Visit Speyer, Sinsheim and
Sat Jan 3 10:24:39 2004
195.93.74.19

... and possibly the air museum on the old Canadian fighter airfield (4th Fighter Wing) at Söllingen near Baden-Baden. Sinsheim (near Heidelberg and the Formula 1 circuit of Hockenheim) is a huge aerospace museum along the Mannheim-Stuttgart Autobahn (Tu-144, Concorde, Ju 52 and many more). I have no details on Söllingen's museum. This airfield had first Canadair "Sabres", then F-104s, then F-18s. It is now entirely civilian and called Aeropark Baden-Baden, or Airpark, or airport Baden-Baden, or airport Karlsruhe-Baden-Baden (Karlsruhe is more far way than B.-Baden). It is about 10 road kilometers to the West of B.-Baden and very close to the Rhine, between the villages of Hügelsheim and Söllingen.

These 3 locations are just a few dozens of kilometers apart from each other.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Hawk-Eye
Ex-Canadian airfield Söllingen (Airpark Baden-Baden)
Sat Jan 3 16:28:22 2004
195.93.74.19

I forgot to mention that for a certain period some twin-engined Canavro CF-100 "Canuck" all-weather and night fighters were based at Söllingen, probably one squadron. I have got some very fine "Canuck" photographs. They had got a moose on their nose, which must have been pretty heavy.

When it was an active military airfield they called it "Baden-Söllingen", a name the Canucks invented for the village is Söllingen in the Land (region, or "state") of Baden, now Baden-Württemberg.

Pronunciation (oh dear!) : Zoellinghen.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

George Hopp
Hawk-eye, you make me homesick ...
Sun Jan 4 01:52:09 2004
216.191.233.234

I was at Soellingen 1960-1962 on Clunkers. At the time there were 2 Sabre squadrons there, 422 "Tomahwk" and 44 "Cobra" Squadrons, and 419 "Moose" Squadron. 419 was disbanded on 31 Dec 62, and the Sabre squadrons shortly thereafter, being replaced by 104s.

Sometime later, I heard that the army moved in there and managed to ruin all the decent relations we had built up with the locals over many years.

All the best,
George

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Marc Lund
Great news, but...
Sat Jan 3 13:50:28 2004
145.254.35.56

that means, that Grislawski's rudder which is at the moment on display in Hannover-Laatzen (which is very near to my hometown!) will be brought further south, so I have to drive far longer :)
That's a kind of reunification.
Thanks to all who made it possible!

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Christer Bergström
Grislawski's rudder
Sat Jan 3 14:28:11 2004
81.225.209.126

"that means, that Grislawski's rudder which is at the moment on display in Hannover-Laatzen (which is very near to my hometown!) will be brought further south, so I have to drive far longer :) "

No, Marc, Grislawski's rudder has now been removed from Hannover-Laatzen. Which in turn means that you have to change hometown and settle down much closer to Speyer ;-)

Where do you live?

All best,

Christer Bergström

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Marc Lund
Re: Grislawski's rudder
Sat Jan 3 19:35:30 2004
145.254.33.33

I want to visit Hannover tomorrow with my little daughter, so we won`t see the rudder :(.
During summer I`m living on the beautiful island Fehmarn (former Luftwaffe airfield Gollendorf) in the Baltic and in winter near Hamburg
regards
Marc

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Stephen
Christer, where was Graf's rudder found? (nm)
Sat Jan 3 21:06:17 2004
64.230.17.84

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Christer Bergström
Re: Christer, were was Graf's rudder found?
Sun Jan 4 12:22:09 2004
81.225.209.126

It was stored away in the basement of the Wehrgeschichtliches Museum in Rastatt. Claes Sundin and I were there and made inquiries for the Graf rudder in 2002. They were unable to find it on that occasion, but that set things in motion.

All best,

Christer Bergström

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Christer Bergström
Re: Christer, where was Graf's rudder found?
Sun Jan 4 13:23:21 2004
81.225.209.126

But of course, the main work to get it was done last year by the people in and around Traditionsgemeinschaft JG 52 in Germany.

All best,

Christer Bergström

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Stephen
Thanks for your reply, Christer. But...
Tue Jan 6 01:24:54 2004
64.230.189.96

I wonder how many other rudders are about?

Stephen

[Richard T Eger]

From within a thread on 12 O'Clock High!:

Michael Swoboda
Thank you, but...
Tue Mar 2 12:42:16 2004
217.232.253.5

I know of at least one standard Fw 190 D-9, which was converted from an A-9, the D-9 with the Werknummer 210968.
So I think there were others, especially from this Werknummernblock.

Best regards

Michael

[Richard T Eger]

From further within the thread on TOCH!:

Michael Swoboda
Jet&Prop 2/04...
Wed Mar 3 14:08:54 2004
217.232.250.13

...there is an article about the restoration of this a/c.

Regards

Michael

(There was intervening discussion on TOCH! between this and the previous posting as shown here on LWAG, but that was the only specific aircraft Michael had referred to in the entire thread. Thus, I think that must be the aircraft he was referring to above.

Regards,
Richard)

[Richard T Eger]

The following information is in references to the website The Hanns Klemm Homepage, by Horst Zoeller.

From within a thread on 12 O'Clock High!:

Tony Jones
Re: H. Klemm Homepage & Horst Zoeller
Wed Mar 24 19:25:30 2004
195.92.67.65

Go to

http://www.junkers.de.vu/

When into the site go down to "German Aviation History" click on this and then select Klemm

(Per Tony's guidance, this site is found through first going to Horst Zoeller's "The Hugo Junkers Homepage" site. The site appears to be of 1998 vintage and doesn't appear to have been updated since. The Homepage notes the following site contents:

Contents

Hanns Klemm's Biography

Development of Klemm Flugzeugbau

Who is who at Klemm?

Klemm Aircraft Types - very detailed listing with histories and technical data

Remaining Klemm Aircraft - listing of remaining Klemm aircraft in:

- Germany
- Austria
- Luxembourg
- England
- Iceland
- Finland
- Australia
- USA
- Sweden
- Denmark
- Netherlands
- Switzerland
- Portugal

Links to other servers

Klemm Literature + Books


Links to Klemm related Pages

Klemm KL107 Hompage (photos of remaining KL107 aircraft)


Klemm Books & References - reference to 3 books

Regards,
Richard)

[Richard T Eger]

HZoeller
Member
Posted: 10 April 2004 15:48

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You might reach my Klemm Page also with the direct link

http://home.t-online.de/home/hzoeller/kl_home.htm

Best, Horst