ULTRA Messages at the NA (PRO) - 2

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

dire
Sardinia April 1943
Sun Jan 4 10:28:25 2004
62.158.82.60

I already posted this question some time ago without any major success. Please excuse me bugging you once again.
In the course of my research concerning my dad’s war time career I’ve been trying to figure out what unit did II./KG.zbV.1 (II/TG.1) transfer from A/F Grosseto (Italy) to A/F Milis (Sardinia) on April 16, 1943. Another mission was flown from A/F Naples (Italy) on April 17 with the same destination. It’s even unknown whether they transferred infantry or personnel of a Luftwaffe unit.
In his field letters written a few days prior this sortie dad mentions “personnel of StG 77” to be picked up at A/F Würzburg (Germany) “bound for the south”. I do have a second source also claiming “personnel of StG 77”. As a matter of fact on its flight Germany-Italy II./KG.zbV.1 DID NOT quick stop at A/F Würzburg but went straight south to A/F Grosseto where from they flew a few missions into Sardinia.

All this is quite confusing and unfortunately dad can’t remember – 60 years later!

Any Sardinia buff out there ?

Regards,
dire

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Rabe Anton
Sardinian Airlift - April 1943
Sun Jan 4 18:23:20 2004
205.188.208.166

If there is any documentary evidence available today detailing Luftwaffe airlift activity in the Med in April 1943, it will doubtless be found in ULTRA: Main Series of Signals Conveying Intelligence to Allied Commands in the Field. Originals in PRO DEFE series, reproduced on microfilm by Clearwater Publications ca. 1980. The Luftwaffe material dealing with the retreat from North Africa and with Sardinia is very dense during April 1943. No guarantees about what you're looking for but possible.

RA

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Anonymous
Re: Sardinian Airlift - April 1943
Tue Jan 6 08:13:36 2004
217.1.4.125

Rabe, thanks for your reply. But WHERE would I find that source ?

dire

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Rabe Anton
ULTRA and Sardinian Airlift
Tue Jan 6 11:49:31 2004
205.188.208.166

Hi!

Well, you know, it's a frustrating situation with the ULTRA materials because accessibility is so limited.

The original ULTRA messages to Allied field commands are in the Public Record Office, Kew, England, in the DEFE series.
Clearwater Publishing of New York (now defunct) microfilmed the messages in two series ca. 1979-1980. The spring 1943 material is contained in 39 rolls in Series II (of which some, mysteriously, are duplicates). A librarian can help you search for holdings in the States (there are only three, I'm told).

RA

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

dire
Re: ULTRA and Sardinian Airlift
Tue Jan 6 14:31:08 2004
217.1.4.60

> Well, you know, it's a frustrating situation with the
> ULTRA materials because accessibility is so limited.

Ooops! That's what I thought. Honestly speaking I'd say, regarding the minor importance of this detail in my research I'm afraid it wouldn't be worth it to start such a hassle out of Germany... Guess, I'll have to wait till an Italian expert dealing with the war-time history of his island will solve the mystery.

Alora, italani - dovè siete ?

Dear friend, thank you anyway.

dire

PS: Feel like we were been in touch long time ago over another issue but can't remember what it was. Take care.

[Richard T Eger]

From within a thread on 12 O'Clock High!:

Rabe Anton
Luftwaffe Anti-partisan Ops in Yugoslavia
Mon Jul 19, 2004 17:18
132.60.240.80

You probably won't like this, but it's a fact nonetheless.
ULTRA Main Series of Signals to Allied Units in the Field
(104 rolls in Series I, 39 rolls in Series II) (Clearwater Publishing, 1979) on 35mm microfilm is one of the best (and least appreciated) sources for Luftwaffe operations in the Balkans. A goldmine of information if you're willing to go after it. The original messages, of course, are in the Public Record Office at Kew, England. I thank Steve W. for putting me onto this invaluable source some years ago. If you find some substantial literature on anti-partisan ops, please let us know. It is not a pleasant subject, and it seems little has been written about it.

RA

[Richard T Eger]

For further discussions of the Clearwater microfilms and commentary about the NA (PRO) ULTRA holdings, the reader is referred to the topic "ULTRA - 4" on the "Intelligence Related Documents" forum.

Regards,
Richard

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Schenck
Ju 52 crash on 15-Oct-1944
Sun Dec 5, 2004 13:01
195.92.67.74


The aircraft belonged to III/TG 2 and crashed during transferring personnel and equipment of NSGr.7 from Vukovar to Zagreb(Pleso). Only place mentioned is Bataszek, Hungary, which is far away from this route. Could anybody confirm if it crashed in Yugoslavia or Hungary, and any additional info on is welcome.
The source is ULTRA message HP4114 from DEFE3/240.
Many thanks.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Nick Beale
Ju 52
Tue Dec 7, 2004 09:46
212.104.129.149


The problem is with the special "language of Ultra messages. When HP 4114 mentions "Third Gruppe TG 2 Bataszek" it means that Bataszek was where the Gruppe was located, not the crash.

My interpretation is that the crash occurred between Vukovar and Pleso.