AFHRA & NARA Missing Air Crew Reports - 2

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'clock High!:

Bart
Info requested on lost B-17
Tue Jan 2 21:56:49 2001


I'm researching the loss of B-17 #42-37936, The All American Girl, 100BG, 351BS, lost on 10 Jan, 1945. MACR #11744 states that this aircraft was last seen at 1228
headed toward Belgium with one engine out after bombing Cologne. The entire crew was listed MIA later updated to KIA. Are there any Luftwaffe records indicating that this
aircraft was brought down my fighters or flak after it was last seen? No wreckage or bodies were ever reported in official AAF records. I presume the aircraft went down in
the water. Any ideas? Thanks for any info. Bart

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Phil
Dodrill's A/C
Wed Jan 3 17:55:59 2001


So far this aircraft is presumed went down near the city of Gladbach 8KM North of Zülpich (Nordrhein Westfalen) damaged by the flak
This aircraft carried first the name of “Our Mark” it was his 98th Mission

[Richard T Eger]

A 29 Jan. 2001 notice on 12 O'Clock High! by Jim Corbett brought to my attention the services being offered by Craig Fuller to supply, for a fee, copies of MACR reports. Craig runs the Aviation Archeology Investigation & Research (AAIR) website at:

http://www.sonic.net/azfuller/

I wrote to Craig for details and he supplied me with the following information:

"Richard,

My web site is listed below. It should give you a good idea what I am doing, but in a nut shell, my primary interest is stateside training crashes. For my own research I have purchases most of the close to 2000 reels of microfilm on the USAAF and USN accident reports through 1955. To subsidize my hobby I have started to commercially sell individual accident reports. There is enough of an overlap with the information I have with combat losses that I have started to collect all of the MACRs and we are working on a comprehensive database. If you have an questions please feel free to ask.
Sincerely,

Craig Fuller
AAIR Aviation Archaeological Investigation & Research
Falcon Field Station Box 22049
Mesa, AZ 85277-2049
(480)-218-8198
aair@juno.com
http://www.aviationarchaeology.com/azfuller "

Both of the above URL's get you to the site. Craig provides thumbnail examples of reports on his site, although I couldn't find an actual example of an MACR. Detailed ordering information is provided. Craig has done an excellent job in explaining just what he can provide and the cost.

Regards,
Richard

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Margaret O'Connor
B-17 down
Fri Feb 23 12:26:52 2001


I am looking for some info on a ME 109 and a FW that was involved in the
Jan. 23,1943 mission over lorient, France. these planes shot down a
B-17,41-24580. Any suggestions where to start the search?
Margaret
Hille005@maroon.tc.umn.edu

[This message has been edited by Richard T Eger (edited 29 March 2001).]

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Joss
B-17 down
Wed Feb 28 06:49:14 2001


Sorry for the delay, I took two days off, and I'm using the internet link of my office.
Michel LUGEZ's adress : 13, rue de la Ville Etable 44600 St NAZAIRE voice : 00-33-(0)2-40-22-56-95
I checked B-17 41-24580 "Hell Cat" : She belonged to 303rd B.G.. I'm an associated member of 303rd Bomb Group Memorial Association. I therefore suggest you browse
on their excellent website www.303rdbga.com (http://www.303rdbga.com)
I've just checked it : there's 8 entries under the name of Lt Oran T. O'CONNER.
You may also order Missing Air Crew Report # 15473 from the National Archives at College PArk, M.D. U.S.A..
Hope this helps !

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Dom Pastore Jr
LW Fighter Units In Hamburg-Neumunster Area, Feb. 1945
Sun Apr 22 17:17:53 2001


PLEASE HELP!!! I'm attempting to determine the Luftwaffe fighter unit responsible for the downing of a US 8th AF B-17g at 12:00 noon on Feb. 3, 1945 over the Hamburg - Neumunster area. This B-17 was attacked by 2 or possibly 3 Me109's as it approached Hamburg, and was ultimately shot down. It exploded in mid-air, with the debris coming to rest in and around Nienkettbek, Germany, about 9 km south of Rendsburg. ( Nienkettbek is just slightly south-east of Jevenstedt.)The B-17 in question was; #42-97678, "The Birmingham Jewell", of the US 8th AF - 379th BG / 525th BS, piloted by 1st Lt. William A. Webber. (Re: MACR #12217 / KU-3646 ) This a/c was returning to base from an aborted bombing mission to Berlin when it was attacked and shot down. Of the 9 man crew, 5 managed to bail out & become POW's, while the remaining 4 were KIA during or shortly after the fighter attack. I would very much like to determine exactly which Luftwaffe fighter unit was credited with this "victory", and or was responsible for the area where it was attacked & shot down. Is there anywhere I can obtain this information ? From what little Luftwaffe reference I have available, I can only find one day fighter unit based in the approximate area where the attack occured. (Re: I/JG.7, based at Kaltenkirchen, Germany ) from what I can tell, I/JG.7 appears to have been flying Me262's as of Feb. 3, 1945, is that data correct ?? If anyone would be so kind as to assist me in this matter, I will be MOST DEEPLY APPRECIATIVE. If I can't determine the actual Luftwaffe unit credited with this B-17, I'd at least like to determine which Me109 unit(s) was assigned or responsible for the area of the attack & shoot down. I'll appreciate ANY information related to the above, no matter how trivial it may appear. THANK YOU. Regards, Dom Pastore Jr. ( dpast32@aol.com )

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Co de Swart
CrashB-17 20.10.43 De Bilt Holland
Mon Apr 23 15:20:23 2001


A B-17 returning from a raid on Dueren was downed at 14.45u in de Bilt Holland. It is said the Luftwaffe Pilot involved was decorated the same day in the then Hotel Nas in de Bilt, so presumeable stationed at Soesterberg, Schiphol ?. At the time I was at the place of crash. Names of crewmembers of the B-17 are known, not the Luftwaffe pilot's name who possible shot down the bomber.
Where could I find the info for this item? Gruppe, Geschwader, Staffel, Battle-reports, Archives and where?
Thanks for any help
Co de Swart, E-mail:Co.swartde@12move.nl

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Wybe Buising
Crash in De Bilt, B17F, 96 BG
Mon Apr 23 17:58:36 2001


Hi Co,

I think l may be of some assistance to you. The B-17F (96BG/413 BS, serial 42-3439, MZ-V) crashed approx. 1520 hrs leaving several houses in ruins and causing tragic human loss among the crew and people who lived in that street. I do not know who shot it down, it is not very likely that it was a unit based at Soesterberg, the only JG who was during that time possibly involved at Soesterberg was I./JG3 and as far as l know not very active. I only have a remark that they were present at Soesterberg around 28-07-43. MACR 1018 of this crash could be of interest to you.

Regards,
Wybe Buising

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Andreas Trotz
Shot down on the 8th march 1944
Wed May 23 11:16:39 2001


Hello,
does someone have an idea which german fighter shot down a B-17 of the 100th BG 351 BS on 8th march 1994 afternoon in the area between Reinsdorf airfield and Jueterbog-Damm (S of Berlin)? It is for a private research for a crash-location at Hohengoersdorf (macr 3032, 10 pow)

Thank You for Your attention,
Andreas Trotz

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Gina
KU-Report - Katie's Boys
Fri May 25 20:43:05 2001


I am trying to find out how I can order a copy of the KU-Report for the missing aircraft, A/C #42-40056 "Katie's Boys. Detailed information follows:

351st Sqdn.. Crew joined the 100th on 28 Nov 1943 A/C #42-40056 "KATIE'S BOYS" MACR #3032, Microfiche #1028

This crew lost to E/A about 15 miles East of Berlin after mechanical difficulties made it impossible to maintain formation. Eyewitness Accts: Lt. Chapman feathered #1 engine, then unfeathered it near Dummer Lake at 1240 hours. He continued with the formation, although straggling, to the I.P. where he was attacked by three (3) E/A. Escorting Fighters went down and picked him up. The aircraft appeared to be under control when last seen.. Lt Shoens ..

http://www.100thbg.com/mainpages/history/history2/bowmandiary_page4.htm
Mar 8, The 100th, led by Lt. Colonel John Bennett again went to Berlin, this time they could put up only 15 planes and in spite of the previous loses there were no abortions from the 100th, a fact said to have moved Colonel Bennett close to tears. The Group returned with the loss of only one plane, that flown by Lt. Norman Chapman. (The entire crew bailed out safely and all became POWs. Bombing results were good.. (Subparagraphs a, b, c, d, e, & f - added by Paul West; July 1994)

If anyone knows where I could order this, please let me know. Thank you.

[This message has been edited by Richard T Eger (edited 15 June 2001).]

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

L. Hopkins
Nov. 11, 1943
Fri Jun 8 01:30:05 2001


Seeking information concerning B-17 destroyed
on Nov. 11, 1943. Only three went down on that
day, all following raid on Muenster. Two went
down in Holland, the third (the one that interests
me) into the North Sea. Report of flak damage
and heavy figher activity. One wounded man
parachuted out over Germany, survived war as POW.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Matt Hubert
re: query
Fri Jun 8 05:57:16 2001


Hey there. I don't have Mighty 8th on hand so I will have to wing this off MACR index. There were four B-17s listed in the MACR Index for this day. Three were from the 94th BG, and one was from the 385th (?) BG. The MACRs are: 1066, 1067, 1068 & 1161.

Go to: http://www.94thbombgroup.com/ & http://www.geocities.com/guyries

They may have more info for you.

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Marc Ferrero
Seeking documents to B-17 Crash
Sat Jun 9 00:31:33 2001


My father-in-law flew for the 412th Bomber Squadron / 95th Bomb Group and on March 6, 1944 his plane a/c # 42-39793 was shot down N.E. of Osnabruck around 12:10 p.m. and all 10 of the crew became P.O.W. The aircraft may have crashed in the GOLDENSTEDTER HEIDE area of Germany. The exact grid-coordinate of the aircraft crash is 8°23' East - 52°43'30" north. The exact location is 7 km SSW GOLDENSTEDT and 8 km WNW BARNSTORF, just at the edge of the GOLDENSTEDTER MOOR, called "Dreiecksmoor." There were 7 bombers that crashed in the area that day and 6 are identified but the 7th plane may be my dads. I have been searching for several years now for any German document and a possible photo of the crash site that would in fact confirm the above information as being 100% accurate. If anyone has information whatsoever as to where I might locate these, if they still exist, I would be extremely grateful.

Thank you so very much.
Marc Ferrero

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Matt Hubert
re: B-17 loss
Sat Jun 9 11:03:36 2001


Marc; have you gotten the MACR? The # is 2985. No help from me on the German side of documents though. Sorry. http://www.lwag.org/ubb/frown.gif

Matt

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Kevin Baesler
LW claims for 4FG losses
Sat Aug 25 07:33:24 2001


Doing some research on 4FG. Would anyone be able to ID possible Luftwaffe claims for these 4FG losses? All P51s, the last one a P51D.

3/29/44-Capt KD Peterson, shot down by FW190s between Brunswick & Hanover at app 1315
4/18/44-Maj George Carpenter, downed near Rathenow at app 1430
4/19/44-Capt Charles F Anderson, downed in Belgium, time and place unknown
4//24/44-1Lt Hippolitus Biel, downed south of Darmstadt at 1245
10/14/44-Capt Joseph Lang, downed 4 mi SE of Eurville-sur- Marne, Fr at 1520.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Christer Bergström
4 FG & Hermann Graf
Sat Aug 25 13:09:44 2001


"Doing some research on 4FG. Would anyone be able to ID possible Luftwaffe claims for these
4FG losses? All P51s, the last one a P51D.
3/29/44-Capt KD Peterson, shot down by FW190s between Brunswick & Hanover at app 1315"

From what I know, there were only two claims made by Fw 190s against P-51s at around that
time:

Major Heinz Bär, commanding II./JG 1, claimed two P-51s as his 196th and 197th victories at
1325 hrs on March 29, 1944. However, both claims were made in the Halberstadt area,
southeast of Brunswick (Braunschweig).
I'll return to this date below.

"4/18/44-Maj George Carpenter, downed near Rathenow at app 1430"

Probably shot down by 3./JG 3 Udets's Fahnenjunkerfeldwebel Hans Fritz, who claimed a
Mustang as his fourth victory at 1455 hrs in the vicinity of Rathenow.
Maybe also by Ofw. Gerhard Marburg of Sturmstaffel 1, who claimed a P-51 in approximately
the same vicinity. Those were the only Luftwaffe pilots who claimed any P-51 in that area on
that day.

"4/19/44-Capt Charles F Anderson, downed in Belgium, time and place unknown"

Sorry, I couldn't find any Luftwaffe claims against P-51s over Belgium on that day. Maybe one
of these (both over Belgium) could be a misidentification for Anderson's Mustang:

Major Karl Borris, commanding I./26, one Spitfire as victory No 37 at 1905 hrs.
Oberleutnant Wolfgang Neu (KIA 4/22/44), 4./26, one Spitfire as victory No 12 at 1855 hrs.

"4//24/44-1Lt Hippolitus Biel, downed south of Darmstadt at 1245"

If he was shot down by fighters, then his Mustang must be found among these claims:

Oberleutnant Georg Hiebl, 1./JG 11, one P-51 as his second victory at 1255 hrs, northeast of
Mannheim.
Unteroffizier Erich Krauss (KIA 4/24/44), 2./JG 11, one P-51 as his first victory at 1300 hrs,
northeast of Mannheim.
Hauptmann Rolf Hermichen, commanding I./JG 11, one P-51 as his 64th victory at 1306 hrs,
northeast of Mannheim.

"10/14/44-Capt Joseph Lang, downed 4 mi SE of Eurville-sur- Marne, Fr at 1520."

Sorry, no information.

Here is my question:

I am writing a biography on the two German fighter pilots Hermann Graf and Alfred Grislawski.
On March 29, 1944, Graf and his wingman (both flying Bf 109s) engaged a formation of
Mustangs north of Hannover. Graf claimed one Mustang shot down, and I assume that this one
was piloted by 4th FG’s Lieutenant William E. Newell, who was reported to have bailed out
after his aircraft got hit by 20mm shells in the left side below the canopy. If you could provide
me with any details about this incident, I would be most grateful.
Then, during the same combat, Graf ran out of ammunition. In this situation, he rammed one of
the Mustangs. Do you have any report that would indicate something like that?

I hope to hear from you soon!

Kind regards

Christer Bergström

www.blackcross-redstar.com (http://www.blackcross-redstar.com)

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

kevin baesler
3/29/44 mission
Sun Aug 26 02:18:03 2001


Christer, thanks for the quick reply. Your information is very helpful.

Not sure I can help much on Graf's ramming victim. I show the following 8AF P51s downed in air combat on this date:

4FG-Peterson, Newell-accounted for in your post
355FG-Ben D Johnston, Capt. Downed near Brunswick around 1320. Claimed 2 FW190s before going down; "Bulldogs and Dragons" states that he went down due to a blown engine.
357FG-Edwin R Sutton 2Lt. Downed near Potzchne (?), no time available. MACR 3448. Interestingly, Sutton is not listed on the loss list in Olmstead's history of the 357th.

I don't have info on 354FG sorties on this date, but 363rdFG was not part of this mission, according to the unit history I have.

Perhaps Sutton or Johnston were Graf's victims. Joseph R Bennett was rammed by a pilot from JG1 when he was downed, but none of the official or unit histories mention this.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

C. Herrera
Lt. Edwin Sutton-357 FG
Mon Aug 27 16:17:33 2001


Kevin,

Lt. Sutton is mentioned in Olmsted's earlier work, The Yoxford Boys" as "did not return for unknown reason"

Carlos

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Christer Bergström
Bennett vs. Ofhr Hubert Heckmann, 9./JG 1
Sun Aug 26 14:48:17 2001


"Joseph R Bennett was rammed by a pilot from JG1."

Yes, according to German sources, 9./JG 1's Oberfähnrich Hubert Heckmann rammed Bennett's P-51 with his Bf 109 G-6/AS ("Yellow 15") on May 25, 1944.

According to my info, Bennett was credited witha total of 8.5 victories and ended up as a POW.

Best wishes

Christer Bergström

www.blackcross-redstar.com (http://www.blackcross-redstar.com)

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

kevin baesler
May 1944
Sun Aug 26 18:28:13 2001


Christer, can you provide any enlightenment as to the LW pilots/units involved in these USAAF aces lost in air to air combat during May?

5/12/44-Capt John Carder/357FG-near Bischoffen; MACR 4701, time unavailable
5/13/33-Capt Frank Cutler/352FG-near Zameka; MACR 4699; time unavailable
5/28/44-Capt Woodrow Anderson/352FG-near Quedlinburg; MACR 5099; time unavailable
5/28/44-LT Clarence Barger/355FG-near Zerbet; MACR 5360; time unavailable
5/30/44-Capt Fletcher Adams/357FG-near Wesendorf; MACR 5260; time unavailable; noted as "bounced by ME109s"

Sorry for so many requests; any suggestions where I can obtain a copy of LW claim/loss records? Does an online resource exist where you can source this info?

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

C. Herrera
Matching losses & Claims
Mon Aug 27 16:57:27 2001


Ok,I'll bite...

These are tentative:

May 12,1944-Capt. John Carder 357th FG
4 P-51 claims
Uffz. Horst Petzschler,2./JG-3, (who by the way lives in the US) 1 P-51 claimed at 1235 Hrs
Fw. Otto Büssow,2./JG-3, 1 P-51 @ 1240 Hrs
Lt. Georg Füderer, 5./JG-11 1 P-51 @ 1230-1245
Ofw Adalbert von Lipcsey,2./Jg-27 1 P-51 @ 1300Hrs

1 P-51 lost (EA) by 352nd FG and two by the 357th FG.

BTW, 2./JG-3 flew Bf-109s and was especially tasked with engaging escort fighters.All the above units flew Bf-109Gs,BTW.

May 13,1944--Capt. Frank Cutler 352nd FG

3 P-51 claims

Fw. Bindseil,II/JG-1 1 P-51 @ 1338 Hrs
Fhj.-Fw. Hans Fritz,3./JG-3 1 P-51 @ 1417 Hrs
Lt. Oskar Zimmerman,6./JG-3 1 P-51 @ 1430 Hrs.

Only 1 P-51 lost to EA, the one from the 352nd FG.
According to the only eyewitness,Capt. Cuttler ran into the Bf-109 he was pursuing.This took place at 1415-1420 Hrs approximately.

I'll look at the other three in a bit...

CArlos

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

kevin baesler
Great info, thanks!
Mon Aug 27 23:22:22 2001


I down loaded the claims listings per Christer's suggestions and trying to net it out. If I could get
approx times for the USAAF losses it would be a big help.