Museums with Luftwaffe aircraft - 7

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Franek Grabowski
109 rudder at Hendon
Thu Mar 25 15:35:43 2004
213.25.54.73

Hello
Does anyone know history behind the Me 109E rudder exhibited at RAF Hendon?
TIA
Franek

http://www.preservedaxisaircraft.com/Luftwaffe/relics/images/Bf109E%20rudder%20RAFM.jpg

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Larry Hickey
Rudder at Hendon
Thu Mar 25 17:10:02 2004
67.173.250.240

Hello Franek,

This was published a number of years ago in the book "the Battle of Britain: The Greatest Battle in the History of Air Warfare" by Bickers as "The rudder from a Messerschmitt Bf 109 shot down by Ginger Lacey during the Battle of Britain." Don't know what the info card says next to it. Based on the photo caption, I've tentatively identified it as from Bf 109E-1, W.Nr. 3584, White 14, "which force-landed on the ranges west of Hythe 8.17 am." on 2/9/40. Uffz. Werner Karl of 1/JG 53 was the pilot.

I emphasize that this ID of the rudder is tentative. However, the markings and camouflage on the rudder would be consistent with a 1./JG 53 aircraft. If the date is correct, it would be just about the time that yellow rudders were introduced on I/JG 53 aircraft. So this was either just before that happened, or the "temporary" yellow paint has been cleaned from the artifact. Somewhere there ought to be photos of "White 14, " based on it coming down in Britain intact. Anybody ever seen photos of the complete aircraft after it force-landed?

Chris Goss, who wrote "Brothers in Arms," which included a detailed account of 1./JG 53 during the Battle of Britain, did not publish any photos of this aircraft nor did he mention the rudder at Hendon. However, he did publish an account of the air combat that brought down "White 14" on P. 135-6 of this book. This made me suspicious that he probably didn't think the Hendon rudder was from a 1./JG 53 aircraft. Chris can probably can make a contribution to this discussion. Chris??

Larry Hickey

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Larry Hickey
Amended Comments on White 14 1./JG 53
Thu Mar 25 17:25:01 2004
67.173.250.240

Franek, with apologies to Chris Goss,

In the comments I just posted, I said that Chris Goss did not published photos of "White 14" in his book, "Brothers in Arms." In fact he did, on pgs 117 and 120. These show it in France before it was shot down. However, none of these show the tail section. I should have turned my reference page over and looked on the back side. As far as I know, no photos have ever been published of the aircraft after it force landed in England.

Larry Hickey

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Chris Goss
Re: Rudder at Hendon
Thu Mar 25 18:35:56 2004
80.40.93.242

Agreed. Yes, there is a photo of White 14 on pages 120 and 117 (and I have a 3rd photo) but no photos show the rudder. I never postively identifed this rudder-when I correcponded with Lacey, he did not mention the rudder. No photos have emerged of the ac after its crash landing

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Franek Grabowski
Rudder at Hendon
Thu Mar 25 18:56:05 2004
213.25.54.73

Hello Larry
I'm afraid your explanation is too easy! ;)
I've discussed the problem with Chris and he's not awared of Ginger visiting the crashsite, so I cannot exclude he just took the someone else's trophy when the Squadron was disbanded or acquired it in any other way. I know of a wartime photo of very this rudder, however this was likely a propaganda shot with a Squadron trophy taken at a later date.
Yellow markings question may be answered by a CEAR but I don't have one. Anybody on this board?
Hmm, lately I've got a luck to a very hard questions. ;)
Franek

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Stephen
Aeroplane Monthly this month!
Wed Apr 7, 2004 01:01
64.230.62.137

This might be old news but Aeroplane Monthly has a good article on a Me.109 E that was pulled from a lake in Russia which is now with Jim P in England.

Stephen

[Richard T Eger]

The Japanese oriented website J-Aircraft.com, by Jim Lansdale, Jim Long, Bill Sanborn, Jim Eyerdom, Grant Goodale, Gary Barling, & Art Buckland-Pinnock can be found at:

http://www.j-aircraft.com/

I include it here on LWAG because it has information on German aircraft that made it to Japan and what information it has on jet and rocket aircraft because of the close familiality with German developments.

Sections of interest are:

Research

The Library - Charles Metz has prepared an extensive bibliography. Here are 3 selected works from his list:

Berliner: 'World War Two Jet Fighters' (Kalmbach , 1982; 72 pages; approximate value US$15 [out of print])

Mikesh: 'Kikka' (Monogram Close-Up series, No. 19; Monogram Aviation Publications [USA], 1979; 32 pages; approximate value US$20 [out of print])
------: 'Experimental Twin Engine Fighters Ki-83, Ki-96, Ki-102, and Ki-108' (Famous Airplanes of the World (1) series, No. 94; Bunrin-Do [Japan], 1978; in Japanese; 66 pages; approximate value US$5 [out of print])

Message Boards

Ed West on 12 O'Clock High! provided the following lead:

"Ed West
Photo Japanese a/c similar to Me 163
Sun Apr 11, 2004 05:01
64.7.186.245

http://www.j-aircraft.org/bbs/general_config.pl?read=14341

Enjoy,
Ed"

Oddly, in running through several forums and using the search engine, this was about the only entry on jet and rocket aircraft I could get to come up.

Real Aircraft Photos

[u]Walkarounds

J8M1 Shusui - Planes of Fame - 3 photos
J8M1 Shusui - J8M1/403 - 9 photos
Kikka - NASM/Garber - 4 photos
Ohka - Various - 9 photos
Ohka - Cosford Museum - 47 photos
MXY7 Ohka - Various - 13 photos
MXY7 Ohka - Yasakuni - 9 photos
MXY7-K1 Ohka - Air Force Museum - 20 photos

Book Reviews

Black Crosses And Red Stars - 1 review
Japanese Aircraft Interiors 1941-1945 - 2 reviews

Satellite Sites

Hikoki: 1946 - See the topic "Hikoki: 1946, by Edwin M. Dyer, III" on the "Useful Websites" forums for a description of this satellite site.

Captured J-Aircraft

Captured Message Board - Commentaries on Me 109, Fw 190, He 162, & Me 210

Tested by

Me 109


Regards,
Richard

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Andrzej
Heinkel He 111 H 20
Fri Apr 16, 2004 12:37
83.30.32.240

Nose of a Heinkel.

Dear Friends,
I'm a modeller, starting to build a model of He 111 H 20 by Airfix.
The problem I face is the nose of this craft. As far as I know, this part of the Heinkel was modified in this version, but the Airfix didn't modelled it the right way, I'm affraid. What I'm looking for are pictures or sketches of He 111 H 20 nose to remodell it correctly.
Help me please find them!

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

David Ransome
Heinkel nose
Fri Apr 16, 2004 16:38
195.92.194.11

Hi,

On the original aircraft the H-20 nose was basically the same overall shape and size as the earlier H models. (Personally verified by examination/measurement of surviving specimens, RAF museum and Norway).

I seem to recall that the Airfix H-20 fuselage and nose particularly were slightly too thin in plan view. The fuselage was relatively easy to correct. The nose I tried widening with clear plastic inserts without success, and ended up using an Italeri nose as a pattern and moulded heated acetate sheet over it. This came out okay.

There is a reprint of an He 111 H-20 handbook on eBay at present which has illustrations of the cockpit area, this may be of use!

Regards

David

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Cheesey
onecheesey@jeresymail.co.uk
Werknummer - Help required !
Wed Apr 21, 2004 23:01
82.112.132.136

Hi all.

Can anyone help with the identity of the following He 111. These details are taken from a Werknummer plate salvaged from a He111 on the sea bed of the coast of Guernsey, Channel Islands. I'm interested in the sub-type.

ARADO-flugzeugwerke
BMBH
Grenz Heinkel Rostock
TYP HE-111H wknr 23/205

I have a couple of possible losses which this a/c may be.
He111 H-? lost on 29/7/40 due to tech failure whilst on sortie. II/KG27 or He111 (?) shot down on 14/8/43 north of Guernsey by 263 Sqn Whirlwind unit unknown !

Cheers.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

David Ransome
He 111 type
Wed Apr 21, 2004 23:56
195.92.194.11

Hi,

I would think an H-1. I think that your 'BMBH' is actually 'GMBH' and wonder whether 'Grenz' is actually 'Licenz'. WNr 2315 - 2324 and 2695 - 2790 were built by Arado under licence from Heinkel and were all H-1 type (though some were upgraded to H-2 spec sometime after production in 1939). Is there any chance of a scan of the plate so that I could look at the WNr layout on it - also, is there any date on it which might help confirm ID, this may help in case it is a repaired machine.

Regards

David

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Hawk-Eye
GmbH not BMGH - this indication is unimportant (legal form
Thu Apr 22, 2004 15:30
195.93.74.19

(legal form of the company : "Company with limited Responsibility", Gesellschaft mit beschränkter Haftung).

[Richard T Eger]

The AXLs Plane Gallery website, by Alex Postma, contains a very large collection of Axis aircraft photos, some vintage and some of preserved aircraft. The site address is:

http://www.studenten.net/customasp/axl/index.asp

The section of interest is:

WWII Axis - photos

Bf 108 - 12 color, 4 b&w

- Includes A/C at Kalamazoo Air Zoo, Kalamazoo, MI, U.S.A.; Musee Royal de l'Armee, Brussels, Belgium; Ex N108H, OO-NET, New Zealand; Germany; Deutsche Lufthansa Berlin Stiftung, Germany; Imperial War Museum, London, England

Bf 109 - 26 color, 8 b&w

- Includes A/C at RAFM Hendon, England; German Air Force Museum, Germany; Finnish AF Museum, Tikkakoski, Finland; USAFM, Dayton, OH, U.S.A.; IWM, Duxford, England; NASM, Washington D.C., U.S.A.; Planes of Fame, California, U.S.A.; Fundacja Polskie Orly, wnr 163306, Poland; Bf 109G-10 W.Nr. 151591, EADS, Messerschmitt Foundation, Germany

Bf 110 - 8 color, 11 b&w

Me 163 - 10 color, 15 b&w

- Includes A/C at RAFM Cosford, England; Luftwaffe Museum, Gatow, Germany; IWM, Duxford, England.

Me 262 - 12 color, 22 b&w

- Includes A/C at Deutches Museum, Munich, Germany; NASM, Washington D.C.; U.S.A.; Vojenske Muzeum, Kbely AB, Czech Republic; South African National Museum of Military History; South Africa.

Me 323 - 6 color, 14 b&w

Me 410 - 7 color, 6 b&w

- Includes A/C at RAFM Cosford, England

Messerschmitt P.1101 - 7 b&w

Ta 152 - 8 b&w

Ta 154 - 6 b&w

Fw 187 - 1 color, 8 b&w

Fw 189 - 3 color, 27 b&w

Fw 190 - 12 color, 29 b&w

- Includes A/C at USAFM, Dayton, OH, U.S.A.; RAFM Hendon, England

Fw 200 - 3 color, 19 b&w

Ju 52 - 2 color, 8 b&w

Ju 87 - 8 color, 29 b&w

- Includes A/C at RAFM Hendon, England

Ju 88 - 4 color, 8 b&w

-Includes A/C at RAFM Hendon, England

Ju 287 - 9 b&w

Ju 290 - 9 b&w

Ju 388 - 2 color, 11 b&w

Ju 390 - 4 b&w

Do 17 - 2 color, 11 b&w

Do 18 - 1 color, 8 b&w

Do 24 - 2 color, 11 b&w

- Includes A/C at Militaire Luchvaart Museum, Kamp Van Zeist, Netherlands

Do 26 - 2 color, 7 b&w

Do 215 - 7 b&w

Do 217 - 1 color, 17 b&w

Do 335 - 3 color, 13 b&w

- Includes A/C at NASM Garber, Silver Hill, MD, U.S.A.

Do J Wal - 1 color, 8 b&w

- Includes A/C at Technical Museum, Lujan, Argentina

He 59 - 1 color, 11 b&w

He 100 - 1 color, 4 b&w

He 111 - 8 color, 30 b&w

- Includes A/C at RAFM Hendon, England; Confederate Air Force, Midland TX, U.S.A. (crashed and destroyedon 10 July 2003); Norwegian Aviation Museum, Norway

He 111Z - 9 b&w

He 112 - 1 color, 11 b&w

He 114 - 6 b&w

He 115 - 4 color, 9 b&w

He 177 - 2 color, 11 b&w (possibly 1 of these is in color)

He 162 - 4 color, 11 b&w

- Includes A/C at Planes of Fame California, U.S.A.; IWM, London, England; Le Bourget Paris, France; RAFM Hendon, England

He 219 - 2 color, 6 b&w

He 280 - 8 b&w

Hs 123 - 1 color, 10 b&w

Hs 129 - 1 color, 8 b&w

Bv 138 - 2 color, 16 b&w

Bv 141 - 11 b&w

Bv 222 - 17 b&w

Bv 238 - 6 b&w

Fi 103 - 1 color

- Missile at Historisch-Technisches Informationszentrum, Peenemünde, Germany (replica containing original parts)

Fi 104R - 6 b&w

Fi 156 - 27 color, 11 b&w

- Includes A/C at CAF Texas, U.S.A.; USAFM, Dayton, OH, U.S.A.; Swiss Air Force Museum, Switzerland; Luftwaffe Museum, Gatow, Berlin, Germany; Fi 156 W.Nr. 475309, Kermit Weeks, Florida, U.S.A.; Flygvapenmuseum, Linköping, Sweden.

Ar 196 - 5 color, 11 b&w

- Includes A/C at NASM Garber, Silver Hill, MD, U.S.A.

Ar 232 - 9 b&w

Ar 234 - 4 color, 11 b&w

- Includes one A/C variously at NASM, Garber, Silver Hill, MD, U.S.A.; NASM, Washington, D.C., U.S.A.; NASM, Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center, Washington Dulles International Airport, Chantilly, VA, U.S.A. (current A/C location).

Ar 240 - 8 b&w

Ba 349 - 5 color, 12 b&w

- Includes A/C at NASM, Garber, Silver Hill, MD, U.S.A.

Caproni Campini CC.1 - 7 color, 4 b&w

- Includes A/C at the Italian Air Force Museum, Vigna di Valle, Rome, Italy

HA-1112-M1L (Spanish-built Bf 109) - 15 color

- Includes A/C at Planes of Fame, Chino, CA, U.S.A.; Fighter Factory, Suffolk, VA, U.S.A.; National Aviation Air Museum, ONT, Canada, on loan to Western Canada Aviation Museum, Canada; OFMC, Duxford, England, crashed on 25 Sept. 1999 in Spain; Kalamazoo Aviation History Museum, Kalamazoo, MI, U.S.A.

Mitsubishi J8M1 Shusui - 5 color, 4 b&w

- Includes A/C at Planes of Fame, Chino, CA, U.S.A.; Mitsubishi Heavy Industry, Nagoya, Japan

Nakajima Kikka - 9 b&w

Yokosuka MXY-7 Ohka - Baka - 6 color, 12 b&w

- Includes A/C at RAFM Cosford, England


My thanks go to Mikael Olrog who helped with identifying the locations of the preserved Axis aircraft.

Regards,
Richard

[Richard T Eger]

A listing of the aircraft on display at IWM Duxford can be found at the IWM's website:

http://www.iwm.org.uk/

Specifically, the list can be found at:

http://www.iwm.org.uk/duxford/100YOF/aircraftlist.htm

Luftwaffe aircraft at Duxford:

Bf 109E
Me 163
He 111 (Casa 2-111)
Fi 103 V1 Flying Bomb
Fa 330A-1 Bachstelze ('Water Wagtail' Autogyro)
Ju 52/3mge (Amiot AAC.1)

Regards,
Richard

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Andy Mac
Further ref Faber and his 190...
Wed Aug 25, 2004 01:29
81.86.99.189

http://www.shoreham-aircraft-museum.co.uk/faber.htm

Posted for your info.

Andy.

(The homepage of The Shoreham Aircraft Museum website is at:

http://www.shoreham-aircraft-museum.co.uk/

Exhibits include:

A collection of photographs of a Dornier 17Z - 8/KG76, downed on 15 September 1940, along with items taken from the wreckage at the time.

The entire front cockpit section from Oberleutnant Armin Faber's Focke-Wulf 190A-3 - Stab III/JG2 'Richthofen', captured 23 June 1942, complete with armoured screen.

Quoting from the museum's site:

"The museum houses hundreds of aviation relics excavated by the group over many years from crashed British and German aircraft, as well as items which have been kindly donated. In addition, there is a fine collection of flying helmets, uniforms and insignia. This, along with a comprehensive display of Home Front memorabilia, ensure a visit to the museum is both enjoyable and educational.

Artifacts are carefully arranged and all are clustered to support items recovered from local 'digs' or local happenings. Displays are refined or changed regularly, making a second visit all the more enjoyable."

"There is also a gallery displaying a range of prints by renowned aviation artist, Geoff Nutkins."

Regards,
Richard)

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Marcus Wendel
marcus@skalman.nu
Museums
Sat Aug 28, 2004 10:40
195.216.45.37

I'm compiling information on museums with Axis WW2 equipment on my site, the Axis History Factbook at http://www.axishistory.com , and I'd appreciate any help with additions (text or photos) or corrections to the material.

The museums section can be found at http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=56

Thanks.

/Marcus
marcus@skalman.nu

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

stefaan calus
stefaan.calus@minfin.fed.be
flucht mit Lichtenstein
Mon Sep 6, 2004 17:10
213.177.151.74

Hallo allen,

Am 9/05/1943 ist ein Ju 88 mit den damals neuste Lichtenstein Radar gefluchtet nach England.
Kan jemanden mehr Informationen geben?
Besonders interessant zu wissen was mit der Besatzung passiert ist?
Offenbar hat die Besatzung auch davor Fluchte nach England gemacht mit Dokumenten und eben Personen.
Wißt einer mehr?
Ich glaube das die Geschichte erschienen ist im 'Bild am Sonntag' im Frühjahr 1974.
Hat jemanden ein Kopie von dieser Zeitung?

Schon herzlichen dank,

Stefaan

Altavista translation:

stefaan calus
stefaan.calus@minfin.fed.be
flight with Lichtenstein
Mon Sep 6, 2004 17:10
213.177.151.74


At the 9/05/1943 a Ju 88 with that at that time the then newest Lichtenstein radar to England. Can someone more information give? Particularly interesting to know which happened with the crew? The crew has before it obviously also made flights to England with documents and even persons. Know one more? I believe that history appeared in the 'Bild at the Sonntag' in the spring 1974. Does copy of this newspaper have someone?

Already cordial owing to,

Stefaan

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Hans Nauta
D5+EV Werknr 360043
Mon Sep 6, 2004 20:16
213.73.208.85

Hi Stefaan,

Although many of the visitors of this Board are from German origin, you may get more responses if you put your question in English language.

However, this Ju.88 was the D5+EV Werknr 360043 from 10./NJG3, which was crewed by FF Oblt Heinrich Schmitt, BF Ofw Paul Rosenberger and BM Ofw Erich Kantwill.

They fled with this Ju.88 from Kristiansand in Norway to Dyce in Scotland. You'll find this story in the book 'Wespennest Leeuwarden' by the Dutch author Ab A. Jansen, page 174 - 181.

Regards,
Hans Nauta

(Regarding 'Wespennest Leeuwarden', the following description of the book is taken from ZVAB:

"JANSEN,Ab A. Wespennest Leeuwarden. De geschiedenis van de strijd van, de Duitse nachtjagers en geallieerde luchtmachten boven Nederland in de jaren 1940-1945. Overvloedig geillustreerd met 448 foto's en tekeningen! Buitengewoon nauwkeurig historisch verhaal, evengoed met namen en foto's der Duitse zijde over de ont- wikkeling der luchtmachtbasissen, de bombardementen, de akties, het burgerleven in de streek, technische verklaringen, enz...Baarn,1976. 3 Delen. 315 + 342 + 365 blz. Gebonden. Met omslag. Bewogen en boeiende dokumentatie, vlot leesbaar!"

Rough Altavista translation:

"JANSEN,Ab A. Wasp Nest Lion Ears. The history of the fight of, the German night hunters and allied air powers above the Netherlands in the years 1940-1945th abundant geillustreerd with 448 foto's and drawings! Extraordinarily precise historical tale, evengoed with names and foto's of the German side concerning the ont - winding of the air power bases, the bombardments, the actions, the burgerleven in the region, technical declarations, etc.... Baarn,1976. 3 parts. 315 + 342 + 365 p.. Bound. With envelope. And captivating dokumentatie moved, smoothly readable!"

Regards,
Richard)

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Junker
Herbert Schmid not Heinrich Schmitt n/t (nm)
Tue Sep 7, 2004 07:19
80.164.73.136

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Mike Shilton
D5+EV
Sat Sep 11, 2004 19:09
81.101.217.225

FYI this aircraft is currently on display in the Battle of Britain hall at the RAF Museum, Hendon, London, England.

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

J.L.Santos Junior
Me110 Recovery
Tue Sep 21, 2004 16:38
200.216.91.236

A Me110 BoB Crash site
http://homepages.tesco.net/~colin.wingrave/me110.htm

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Andy Mac
Thanks J.L ; - ) (nm)
Tue Sep 21, 2004 18:33
81.86.100.153