AFHRA & NARA Missing Air Crew Reports - 3

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Lynn Ritger
Looking for any claims for a P-38 on 21 May 44...
Sun Oct 14 15:05:49 2001


The following was sent to me by a friend, this aircraft was flown by his wife's uncle so he'd like to find out more about the circumstances of the loss and perhaps the aircraft letter, if known...

42-68086 P-38J CY- (?)
Lost 21 May 44 - Lt. James H Weisel POW
55th FG
343rd Fighter Squadron:
Code: CY-
Symbol: Square

Thanks in advance for any assistance!

Lynn

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

C. Herrera
P-38 loss-May 21,1944
Sun Oct 14 21:50:45 2001


Lynn,

The loss of Lt. Weisel is well discussed in the book "The Interrogator" by R. Toliver, the career of Hanns Scharff, the so-called master interrogator of the Luftwaffe.
On this date, the 8th AF lost 27 fighters in strafing attacks ,the first Chattanooga strafing attack against rolling stock in Germany. 255 locomotives were claimed, along with a variety of other ground targets. Among these targets were many civilian casulaties , which incensed the Germans so much that they planned to have a court martial of the captured pilots.
Acording to the "The Interrogator", gun camera film of of the dead pilots proved that the POWs did commit the attrocities.

Some fighter pilots believed that anything in Germany was fair game.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Joss
some details
Wed Oct 17 20:25:57 2001


Hello,

The relevant Missing Air Crew Report for this loss is #4979, and may be obtained from the National Archives at College Park, Maryland, U.S.A.
But perhaps someone on this board has it, personally I don't.
In 8th Air Force losses list the crash site is stated as Hesslingen,?, which should be in Germany. cause of loss is stated as Anti-Aircraft.
55th F.G. lost 6 P-38s that day, 2 pilotes KIA and 4 POW, while a 7th was KIA in a crash back in England.
Can't add more.

Joss

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Pierre BABIN
losses of 361st FG (USAAF),7th June 1944
Tue Oct 30 18:06:57 2001


Could anyone give me the losses of the 361st FG on 7th of June 1944: name, rank, squadron and fate of the pilots, time, place and cause of these losses.
Thank you very much

Pierre Babin

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Hans Ploes
Only one loss
Wed Oct 31 18:04:31 2001


Hello

The 361st FG had only one loss this date:
Major George L. Merritt Jr. O-335212 KIA (buried Epinal War Cemetery)
He was from the 375th FS and did fly in
P-51B-15-NA 42-106835 B7-E (374FS?) BALD EAGLE
MACR 5523

My database shows Roiffe, Tours (F) as place of crash.

Sincerely

Hans

PS: Can anyone confirm the markings and the nickname of the aircraft?

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Dave Clark
P-51 loss 7 June 1944
Wed Oct 31 20:36:49 2001


I can confirm that 374th FS was part of 361st FG in the 65th Wing Eighth Air Force, and that the call letters of the squadron was "B7" ... so we can conclude that it was aircraft "E" in 374th Fighter Squadron. Sorry, I can't help with the nose art or name!

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

David P. Williams
29th August 1944
Fri Dec 21 09:37:47 2001


The Fifteenth Air Force sent a formation of B-17s to Czechoslovakia on this date to bomb oil and industrial targets. This formation was attacked by IV.(Sturm)/JG 3 and they claimed to havr shot down 3 of the B-17s. Can anyone tell me how many B-17s were deployed and which Bomber Groups they came from, as well as where they were based in Italy. In addition, iI should also like to know their exact losses on this mission and what/where were their exact targets. Any help would bw gratefully appreciated.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Horst Weber
29August losses
Sat Dec 22 01:33:01 2001


Hello David !

Bomber losses of 15th AF were:

2nd BG:
- 42-97915
- 42-31473 Pretschkowitz (CZ)
- 42-31885
- 42-32048 near Zlin
- 42-38096
- 42-107118 Fritschendorf
- 44-6359
- 44-6369
454th BG:
- 42-52313 at Mährisch Ostrau (CZ)
455th BG:
- 42-52741
459th BG:
- 41-28956

Other bombers came down that day near Tata, Hungaria; Mostar; Ferrara; Wischau; Wetin (CZ); Esseg.

MACR # 11544 reports, that B-24 # 42-52313 drop behind the formation with an engine on fire before I. P. without flak or fighters encountered at about 11:11 hours.

All the best

Horst Weber

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

David P. Williams
29th August 1944
Sun Dec 23 11:06:13 2001


Many thanks Horst for the information and taking the time to help. Very much appreciated and Merry Christmas.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Erich Brown
29 August 1944
Sun Dec 23 20:55:09 2001


David :

The Luftwaffe defence was a mixed bag of Fw 190's. IV.Sturm/JG 3 and II.Sturm/JG 300 with I./JG 300 and III./JG 300 flying Höhenschutz.

Erich

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

co de swart
combat 20.10.1943, JG26, JG3 vs. B-17's
Fri Feb 22 13:44:44 2002
213.17.71.85

Afternoon Fighter attacks on B17's returning from a raid on Düren brought a loss of ± 9 B17's. Does anybody know of surviving records, individual battle reports of the Luftwaffe pilots involved that can trace, "who was the pilot that scored on the B17 MZ-V, crashed in De Bilt Holland at 14.45 hr.??"
Thanks i.a. for any help, Co, Holland

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

richard dunn
20 Oct 43
Fri Feb 22 21:45:14 2002
68.49.0.249

Co

I believe there were only three LW claims for bombers. They were for Boeings by Hptm. Luckas 4./JG3, Lt. Burkhardt 9./JG26 and Fw. Schoenroch (umlaut not "e") 4./JG1. Luckas and Schoenrock were aided by Air Intel Regt 5./201.

1st Bombardment Div lost 2 B-17s both to enemy aircraft. 3d Bombardment Div lost 7 B-17s. One to enemy aircraft and 6 to unknown causes.

Jafue 4 (former Jafue 2) of which III/JG 26 was a part apparently intercepted the 3d BD around 1340 hours. They also encountered the 1st BD later but it does not appear that any were in action as late as 1445. Not does it appear that any of the aircraft of Jafue 5 (former Jafue 3) was in action that late.

Jafue Holland/Ruhr fighters made first contact around 1430. A victory call was heard at 1440 and a "Bravo Bravo" sometime later may also have been a victory call.

My guess based on the above information (which someone else may be able to correct or supplement) is that the choice is narrowed down to Luckas or Schoenroch.

Hope this helps.

Rick

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

co de swart
LW-claims 20.10.1943
Sat Feb 23 10:27:05 2002
213.17.71.73

Thanks Richard. Some info I know of:
Claim list Western Front for that day gives the loss of 4 B17's and 2 unknown 45/45
Pilot's: Schoenrock 4JG1(15.12),Zinkl 6JG1(14.18), 2 unkwown
II/JG2 and 4/JG2, W.Lucas(14.39 and H.Rüffler(14.45)<
The book "Battles with the Luftwaffe" of Boiten and Bowman brings the loss of 9 B17's for that day. (Four claimed by JG26, Priller 1, Burkert 1, rest not mentioned (page74))
That could be a total of eight, one ?.
Only two crash places are stated, (Priller: S.E Arras-Cambrai, and Schoenrock's: 15 km S.E. of den Bosch (Venray?)
Rüffler's score time matches with that of MZ-V 14.45 but De Bilt is not mentioned. (That's why I look for his "Abschutzprotokoll of the confirmed kill)
I asked the Don Caldwell org. for info about JG 26 claims, Also W. Molge (Trad.Geschw.JG26), no answer yet and G. Baeker of Tr.Geschw.3, who thinks it should have been Rüffler, but anyway, no definite confirmation yet.
Thanks for any comment of anybody. Co.
N.B.: Geoff Ward of the heritage 96BG, states crashtime 14.45 for the MZ-V, which matches local sources in De Bilt, so Rüffler is the most suspect.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Joss
crash sites
Sat Feb 23 12:22:09 2002
64.12.104.166

Indeed, Hptm MIETUSCH of III./JG 26 shot down a 303rd B.G. B-17 in a frontal pass. This B-17 exploded in mid-air right over the town of Valenciennes, France, with 2 KIAs on board. The other 8 crewmembers bailed out and were captured.
This was 1st Lt J.W. HENDRY Jr crew, from 360th B.S., B-17 41-24629 VK-G (MACR # 1032).
Anton KRATZEL of JG 26 was shot down a few minutes prior to this, by P-47s, and came down between Cambrai and Valenciennes. I don't have the name of the crash site ready at hand.
B-17 42-03372 of 96th B.G. came down at Harchies/Quevaucamps (B),
the 95th B.G. B-17 ditch off Great Yarmouth.
B-17 42-30719, CC-P, "Shatzi" of 390th B.G. came down in Holland, one evader. MACR # 1039.
The second B-17 lost by 303rd B.G. came down near Mons (B).
Hope this helps you a little.
Joss

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

co de swart
20.10.1943 "scores" and losses
Sat Feb 23 14:10:21 2002
213.17.71.73

Thanks Joss, regret your info too didn't bring me closer to solving the case: "Who scored on the B17 96BG MZ-V, crashed in De Bilt Holland."? Info from over the "big water" and from over here out of several sources creates a clearer view of air-activity that day, also creates again the need for historians, interested Air war II enthusiasts and hobbyists for completion of and centralisation (+back-up) of archives, which are far too seperated now.
Does anybody know of claim lists/loss lists, LW or/and Allied, which give a better overall-view than those of -all kind sources- scattered-ones of today??
Seems there is still a lot of good work to do in this field for those who have the interest, possiblities, time, contacts, "entrees". Thanks for comment and willing to help, Co, Zeist Holland

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Gordon
Bf 110s vs B-17s over Austria, 22.02.44
Wed Apr 3 05:33:07 2002
205.188.198.44

I am trying to find out more about the following event:

A Bf 110 Staffel came to Wels, Austria for a short time in early 1944, fresh from the Kanalfront. This group was battle hardened, with each of the aircraft marked with victories and led by an impossibly young blond Major with over two dozen victories. Their machines carried rocket tubes and some had additional cannon. The pilots were mainly concerned with offloading large amounts of Cognac and for the duration of their visit, they stayed drunk - not just at night but practically around the clock. With the losses suffered by day 110s, this shouldn't be a surprise..

The Americans were beginning to mount serious raids against the Hermann Goering Steel Works in nearby Linz, and the 110s were deployed to Wels to face them.

An Alarmstart sounded on 22 Feb 44, signaling another raid on the nearby factory, and the 110 crews ran to man their planes. In quick order, all had taken off and the people on the base listened to radios as the Zestroyers approached the B-17s just as they passed over the airfield. Everyone watched the glittering aircraft high overhead and first one and then more of the large bombers began to burn and dive. The rocket attacks were clearly visible from the ground. Several radio calls of "Horrido!" brought cheers and in all, 6 B-17s were downed over Wels and the local area, all witnessed by the soldiers on the airfield.

Parachutes drifted down for quite some time after the bombers crashed into the forest and some of the "guests" landed right on the Wels flight school itself (Abschule 115). Kommandant Kittelburger invited several of the unfortunates to his office for Cognac before he and others
went into the forest to view the wreckage. A "Fortress II" (B-17G) was found strewn across a meadow; maps and other items were recovered as there had been no fire. The police eventually came and escorted the prisoners away.

I told you all of that because I am trying to determine which B-17 Groups/Squadrons were involved, as well as which Bf 110 unit faced them that day. If anyone has the answers to these questions, I would be most grateful. Also, I would like to know if the Goering Steel Works was indeed the target; how many B-17s DNR; if they made any claims against the Bf 110s; name of the Staffelkapitan as well. Many thanks for reading this, and please help if you can.

v/r
Gordon

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Larry deZeng
Re: Bf 110s vs B-17s over Austria, 22.02.44
Wed Apr 3 13:31:15 2002
205.188.199.173

The Bf 110 unit was II./ZG 1, which was based at Wels from 26 Oct 43 to 16 Apr 44 with (mainly) Bf 110G-2s.
As for the B-17 Bomb Groups, if no one on the Board has the answer then all you need to do is contact AFHRA at Maxwell AFB (Montgomery, AL)and ask for a photocopy of the 15th AAF Operations Summary for 22 Feb 44.
(Larry)

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

L Vervoort
22/2/1944 15 AF B17's Losses
Wed Apr 3 15:01:40 2002
194.78.235.190

Hi,

Here is a small list :

Serial Type Macr Group Sqn
42-30459 B17F-105-BO 2491 97 341
42-97439 B17G-15-VE 2390 99 416
42-31476 B17G-20-BO 2490 97 324
42-31522 B17G-20-BO 2391 99 416
42-38134 B17G-30-DL 2631 2 49

Best regards

Luc

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Erich Brown
II./ZG 1's claims ......
Wed Apr 3 15:29:39 2002
63.164.170.9

II./ZG 1 claimed 7 B-24's and 1 B-17 this date.......

more later Gordon.

E

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Luc Vervoort
22/2/1944 15 AF B24's Losses
Wed Apr 3 18:27:55 2002
212.233.1.20

Hi !

Here are the B24's ...

Serial Type Macr Gr.
42-72847 B24D-160-CO 2833 376
42-40662 B24D-85-CO 2588 98
42-64462 B24H-10-CF 2636 449
42-52146 B24H-10-FO 2712 449
42-52161 B24H-10-FO 2832 450
41-28604 B24H-1-DT 3161 450
42-7700 B24H-1-FO 2613 449
42-7715 B24H-1-FO 3174 449
42-73138 B24J-15-CO 2726 98
42-100253 B24J-85-C0 2834 376

Best regards

Luc

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

George Punka
B-24 losts
Wed Apr 3 18:45:43 2002
195.70.63.120

The B-24H serial 41 28604 - Group 450, Squadron 721 belly landed at Csáktornya(Hungary. I have photos.

George

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Gordon
This board is amazing - thanks to all of you! n/t
Wed Apr 3 15:52:42 2002
205.188.199.48