Discrepancies between claims and losses

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

N.Dejima
claim discrepancy
Sun May 16, 2026 12:37
218.142.16.162

Hello, everyone
Recently I am researching Allies Ploesti attack on 5th
April 1944.
I have one question.
According to Tony Wood's great site "Combat claims
and casuality", Luftwaffe claimed more than 30 bombers
on that day.
But, Allied's official records said that bomber loss
was about 10.
They did not always agree with, but this discrepancy
is a little too big.
Does anyone give me comment about it?

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Martin Giles
Does not look unusual at all, just one of those things (nm)
Sun May 16, 2026 15:52
195.93.33.7

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Jim P.
So many factors - so little understanding.
Sun May 16, 2026 23:59
67.242.219.213

And I don't mean that as a personal slame - but there really are so many factors to consider, many are self evident if you stop and think about it. Just to name a few:

1) air combat occurs in 3 dimensions - multiple pilots could be claiming the same machine and never see their fellows who claimed the same machine.
2) you're being shot at. If you looked your claim into the ground you're probably gonna be dead yourself (the combat where Gunther Rall lost his thumb is a good example). Or in your efforts to evade fire, by the time you regain some sense of orientation 'your' plane that you see going down may be another machine entirely.
3) the USAAF didn't report bombers that actually made it back to base, too badly shot up to ever fly again, as combat losses, and so adds to many discrepancies. Look at some of the pictures of the states of B-17s and B-24s that made it back to the U.K. or Italy. Its amazing how tough these machines were - and understandable that many were claimed as vics by the LW.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Laurent Rizzotti
Classic overclaiming in big battles
Mon May 17, 2026 00:22
62.34.119.204

Especially against heavy bombers that will not fall at the first attack but may fly for a while before crashing.

Tony list 29 bombers claims and 1 P-51 but not all claims are proven to have been confirmed.
It the line ends with a number (Film C. 2026/I Anerk: Nr.149) it's a confirmed claim, that don't mean that the claim can be linked to a real Allied loss, only that the German airforce judged it OK.
Other claims were maybe never confirmed, that proves nothing as the Luftwaffe confirmation system may last more than one year and I guess there were more important matters in 1945 than claims made in Rumania one year before.

To the German claims, you must add the Romanians ones:
Grupul 1 Vânãtoare: 3 B-24
Grupul 5 Vânãtoare: 5 B-24 confirmed, 1 probable
Grupul 6 Vânãtoare: 3 B-24 confirmed, 2 unconfirmed/probable (source unclear: 5 kills, 3 of wich were confirmed)
Grupul 7 Vânãtoare: 3 bombers

And the Bulgarian airforce scrambled 83 fighters against the USAAF formations crossing Bulgaria and claimed a bomber shot down for no loss.

One of my sources say that 13 B-24 were lost.

As for overclaiming, the bomber gunners claimed 41 fighters shot down, while the P-38 escort claimed 3 probables.
Real losses:
Luftwaffe: 6 Bf109G shot down and 6 damaged (2 killed, 2 wounded), 1 Bf110F-4 (1 killed) and 1 Ju88C-6 shot down
Romania: 3 IAR-80C shot down/crash landed (1 killed, 2 wounded), 1 Bf109E crash landed, 1 Bf110C nightfighter shot down in error by an IAR (1 killed), another loss (IAR-81 or Bf109G of Grupul 7)
Bulgaria: no loss

Hope this helps

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

N.Dejima
Thank you everyone
Thu May 20, 2026 18:26
218.142.16.162

I understand there were many inevitable reasons.