Bf 109 Werknummern - 7

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

R. Dergoye
W.Nr. series
Tue Jun 1, 2004 00:14
80.9.2.34

Does anybody know which serial numbers were allocated to Bf 109s (presumably G-6s) with the factory code letters DY+NA to DY+NZ ?

Thanks in advance

R. Dergoye

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Jochen Menke
JochenMenkeOF@AOL.com
Bf 109
Tue Jun 1, 2004 12:16
195.93.66.10

Hey

In my list, I have found only the Bf 109 G-6 / DY + NL.
This plane wears the WNr. 410412.

Jochen

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

R. Dergoye
WNr. of DY+N..
Tue Jun 1, 2004 20:13
80.9.11.75

Thanks Jochen.

That would make serial numbers 410401 to 410426 for the factory code letters DY+NA to DY+NZ.

But does anybody know when this series was produced? For instance, do you know to which unit your DY+NL WNr. 410412 was allocated and when it was lost (if it was lost...).

Thanks in advance.

R. Dergoye

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Anonymous
Re: WNr. of DY+N..
Wed Jun 2, 2004 10:07
195.93.74.19

Hey

I have found the WNr together with the SKZ in a loss list from JG 110.
This plane crashed at 17.12.1944 near Stüde, the pilot, Uffz Erich Radke, was killed.

Jochen

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

R. Dergoye
WNr. of DY+N...
Wed Jun 2, 2004 22:11
80.9.3.181

Thanks Jochen. Interesting info.

R. Dergoye

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Andreas Brekken
andrebre@online.no
Anything on Bf 109G-14 WNr 784830 ?
Thu Jun 3, 2004 00:16
129.240.240.136

Hi, guys.

You got anything on this bird??

Regards,
Andreas

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Charles Bavaroise
784.830 typo?
Thu Jun 3, 2004 08:05
62.134.61.23

Andreas,

Werknummernblöcke 784.700 and 784.900 were built at MTT-Regensburg in October 1944 and there are quite a few loss-reports and other documentation on Werkenummern in this range. I can find Werknummern from 784.736 to 784.782 (19 Werkunmmern known) and 784.923 to 784.999 (35 Werknummern known). So far I have not a single entry for the 784.800 block. Can you tell us more about your source?

HTH

Carl

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Andreas Brekken
Photograph taken by
Thu Jun 3, 2004 09:30
83.109.131.1

a Norwegian soldier active in a unit travelling between the different airfields in former occupied countries and Germany in 1945.

Pls contact me off-board by e-mail.

Regards,
Andreas

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Tomas Poruba
tomas.poruba@tiscali.cz
Bf 109G, W.Nr. 784 830
Thu Jun 3, 2004 22:43
212.90.239.140

Dear Andreas,
I agree with Charles, the W.Nr. is very unusual. Series numbers from the block were determinated from 784 731 - 784 784 (54 pieces) and from 784 922 - 785 142 (221 pieces). No number between the two sections. It is clear, the Bf 109s were G-14 and G-14/AS variants, but I´m not able to recognize an exact variant only according a number. Could you, please, write me more about your source?
Regards
Tomáš Poruba

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Kees Mol
109G14/AS Red 1
Fri Jun 4, 2004 00:00
195.240.175.75

Hello guys,

Wnr is probably 784930 because the picture from Andreas shows the same machine as been published in Priens History of JG77(sic).
I don't think this machine belonged to JG77,but to JG6.

All the best

Kees

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

John Manrho
JG 6???
Sat Jun 5, 2004 00:26
81.205.242.244

Hello Kees, I agree that it seems that the picture of Andreas is indeed 784930. But why do you think this is JG 6?. III. Gruppe had no red markings as far as I know....Groeten, John.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Chales Bavaroise
JG 6
Sat Jun 5, 2004 12:40
62.245.211.16

Hello John,

please have a look on Jerry Crandalls "Wings of the Black Cross" #2 page 35. You will find a beautifull profile of this a/c with a red/white Rumpfband.

When Jerry was in Germany last autumn we discussed this a/c and I told him why I think, that this plane is not from JG 77, but from III./JG 6. There is some evidence, that III./JG 6 for a very short time around "Bodenplatte" indeed used a red/white Rumpfband (not red/white/red as the other Gruppen). Many years ago Kees himself drew the same conclusions based on the same sources. I do not know, whether his research has undigged more facts.

Jerry -always eager to feed news into the ongoing Luftwaffe research - decided to publish a profile and wait for the reaction.

Greetings

Carl

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

John Manrho
JG 6
Sat Jun 5, 2004 13:17
81.205.242.244

Mmmmm, interesting, I will contact you per e-mail. Regards, John.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Philippe DM
Red white JG6 RV band???
Sun Jun 6, 2004 12:57
81.241.160.69

John, Charles and Kees,

I would be very happy if you could point me the way in order to assume the colour of the RV band of JG6 to be red/white. I must say I was intrigued by the side view in Jerry's book, but was so tame not to ask it this board.

Would be happy to hear from you guys!

Best regards or vriendelijke groeten ;)

Philippe

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Kees Mol
Red/White bands JG6
Sun Jun 6, 2004 22:13
195.240.171.96

Hello Philippe,

Long time no see!!!
The red/white bands were found on aircraft in allied crash reports in combination with discovered photos.
I can send you a scan of a wrecked 109 with the tailbands showing if you wish.
The same photo has been published recently in Manrho's and Pütz's excellent Bodenplatte book.

All the best

Kees

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

PhilippeDM
JG6 RV bands
Mon Jun 7, 2004 07:38
80.200.215.161

Thanks Kees, for your explan,ation. I have still to read John's book through... No, I was thinking of an earlier source: my memory told me of some camouflage related book(let?).I'll try to check out and revert when found.

Thanks for your answer! I'll try to keep up with you when a new job finally will settle.

All the best, - tot binnenkort!

Philippe

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Andreas Brekken
Photographs of other aircraft with same WNr stencils
Fri Jun 4, 2004 10:07
83.109.131.1

Hi, guys.

I cannot read the WNr of this aircraft as 784930, sorry...

The other possibilities I see (due to the greyness of the photo) is that we might misidentify digit 2 (8).

The way it is painted. it seems that the first two digits 78 are a bit larger than the last four. Was this usual?

I will try to tweak the photo and see if this will give us something better to look at.

Regards,
Andreas

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Andreas Brekken
WNr block 784700 - 785999
Fri Jun 4, 2004 11:21
83.109.131.1

Hi, guys.

Hannu Valtonen list a total of 120 G-14 and 580 G-14/AS which total about 700 aircraft allocated in this WNr series, while You list only a total of 276. I understand that You list the blocks surrounding the WNr I have given.

I do not know which is the correct figure, and would like some 'hard facts' before concluding. What are Your sources, Tomas and Charles, C-Amt?

What are the other blocks you have in the 784700 - 785999 series?

I have posted an enhanced photo of the tail section on my own board, pls take a look and tell me what You think. It will be there in a few minutes!

http://p219.ezboard.com/bwwiiairwaroverthenorth

This is what I call real fun!

Regards,
Andreas

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Charles Bavaroise
Sources
Fri Jun 4, 2004 12:47
62.134.61.22

Andreas,

as I am not at home this week I can only give some rough data. I have reports on Bf 109 in the range

784.734 to 784.782
784.922 to 784.999
785.000 to 785.198
785.601 to 785.997.

This enables us to identify possible production-blocks running from around
784.730 to 785.785 - 55 a/c
784.920 to 785.000 - 80 a/c
785.001 to 785.200 - 200 a/c
785.600 to 785.999 - 400 a/c

My files of course have a lot of gaps within this blocks, but out of the around 735 possible a/c (which corresponds pretty well with Valtonens number)I can indentify exactly 333 individual planes. My sources are the usual loss-reports, flight-logs, CEA ........ - nothing special at all.

A large proportion of the a/c are G-14AS, but there are quite a few "regular" G-14s and I have no clue, whether there was something like a system. For that reason I can't tell you exact numbers for G-14/G-14ASs (wonder were Valtonen got his numbers from?)

HTH

Carl

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Andreas Brekken
Thanks, Charles, appreciated! (nm)
Fri Jun 4, 2004 13:00
83.109.131.1

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Tomas Poruba
W.Nr. 784 830
Fri Jun 4, 2004 18:53
213.235.66.134

Andreas,

my information are from an order nr. 123037 of Bf 109s from Regensburg. Only two "bands" of series numbers were required there - 784 731 - 784 784 (54 pieces of G-14+G-14/AS) and 784 922 - 785 142 (221 pieces of G-14+G-14/AS). The W.Nr. 784 930 wasn´t ordered according the official requirement.
Is it possible to see all snap of the plane? You can contact me on my personal e-mail too.

Regards
Tomáš