IWM microfilms of aircraft loss records of the Luftwaffe Gen.Qu.M. 6. Abt. - 24

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Kees van Es
Focke Wulf crash 1943 Boekel
Wed Jun 23, 2004 13:42
134.146.0.12

Focke wulf 190 shot down in oct 1943 ( i think 20 oct but not sure about that) 1943 and crashed in the place Boekel in Holland.

question:
someone now the right date and also the name of the pilot and flight of this plane.

The FW 190 attacked a flight of B17's who return from a raid
on Duren in Duitsland and is shot down by a allied fighter plane and crased in Boekel.

one of the B17 is crashed also and is crashed by Eerde that's in the vicinity of veghel.

Maybe you have some info about the B17, also.

Thanks in advance

kees van Es

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:



John Beaman
Re: Focke Wulf crash 1943 Boekel
Wed Jun 23, 2004 15:40
24.163.23.138

Fw190A-6, WNr 550873, Zinkl, Uffz., 6./JG 1, gelbe 9 + -, 20-Oct-43, Luftkampf. Pilot FSA, OK., Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #11)-Vol.22; Prien & Rodeike, JG 1 & 11, I, p.612 txt; II, p1226 correction., Bockel, 100%

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Anonymous
Re: Focke Wulf crash 1943 Boekel
Thu Jun 24, 2004 22:13
217.123.103.125

96 BG gives the loss of 42-30372 3 km south of Venray.
This may be your B-17. See MACR 1017.
A difference in place is not strange. Topography was not too good.

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Ota Jirovec
Fw. Martin Schamberger, JG 51
Tue Jul 6, 2004 12:54
160.218.41.34

Hello all,

Fw. Martin Schamberger, pilot of 11./JG 51 was reported as missing in action in the evening of 19.6.1943 after Notlandung in Russian-held territory (possibly after shooting down a Jak-4, at least according to Tony Wood´s files). Does anybody have usual loss data (such as Werknummer, tactical code, location and possibly also the cause) for this pilot. Many thanks in advance for any help.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

John Beaman
Re: Fw. Martin Schamberger, JG 51
Tue Jul 6, 2004 20:00
24.163.23.138

Fw190A-4 5540 Schamberger, Fw. Martin 6 11. 51 schwarze 2 + + 19-Jun-43 MIA after Notlandung behind enemy lines due to engine trouble. Ru§land Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #10)-Vol.18; Ring, JG 51 loss list, p.50 Pl.Qu. 26383, near Borschtschina 100% F

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Ota Jirovec
Re: Fw. Martin Schamberger, JG 51
Wed Jul 7, 2004 11:02
160.218.41.35

John,

many thanks for your kind help. Schamberger seems to be another "forgotten" ace - although Aders/Held credit him with no kills, Tony Wood´s files show 14 claims.

Ota

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Andreas Brekken
Genst.Gen.Qu.6.Abt. Nr. 340/45 lfd.Nr. 47
Tue Jul 20, 2004 14:54
83.109.184.139

Hi, guys!

I would like to have the following confirmed/commented:

I have speculated that the WNr of the A-9 of Hubert Swoboda was 980369, based on what I can read from my copy of the Verlustemeldung (90369, clearly wrong), can anyone confirm this from other sources?

In Prien it is listed as 980368, and I assume Jochen Prien took this from the NVM or other sources and have indicated this in the database as the correct WNr if nothing else turns up.

Regards,
Andreas

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Jim P.
Re: Genst.Gen.Qu.6.Abt. Nr. 340/45 lfd.Nr. 47
Tue Jul 20, 2004 20:35
64.223.199.2

That machine is listed as being lost with another unit:

Fw190A-8 980369 7. SG 77 rote 3 + 17-Apr-45 Tieffliegerangriff. Burned. RLV Ost KTB Lfl. 6/mfm T-321/R.19 Fl.Pl. Kamenz 99% F

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Andreas Brekken
Thx Jim P!
Tue Jul 20, 2004 20:43
83.109.184.139

Hi, Jom.

Could you pls contact me off board?

Regards,
Andreas

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Andreas Brekken
FW 190G-3, WNr 16007?
Wed Jul 21, 2004 14:38
83.109.184.139

Hi.

In my list I have a missing last digit for this WNr.

The aircraft was damaged 35% in a low level attack at Fl.Pl.Redlin on 22.02.1945 while with JGr. 10.

Has anyone got other data on the full WNr?

Regards,
Andreas

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

John Beaman
Andreas are you sure....
Wed Jul 21, 2004 14:56
24.163.23.156

...about the number? there is
Fw190G-3 160007 III. SKG 10 DN+FG 9-9-1943 0:00:00 Destroyed by own troops. WNr. reported as 007. Italy Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #11)-Vol.22 Eboli 100% F

Then there is the only G-3 on 22-Feb-45

Fw190G-3 160074 NJGr. 10 CL+WX 22-Feb-45 Tiefangriff. Nachtjagd Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #12) Fl.Pl. Redlin 35% F

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Andreas Brekken
Are You sure about the unit?
Wed Jul 21, 2004 15:16
83.109.184.139

is the full entry:

Genst.Gen.Qu.6. Abt. lfd.Nr. 280/45 dated 15.03.1945

lfd.Nr. 19
22.2.1945
J.Gr.10
F
Fl.Pl.Redlin
Tiefangriff
FW 190G-3 WNr 16007? (probably 4 then)
35%

This is my transcript, and I will check the original microfiche, but it is listed between two F-8's from the same unit, while the N.J.Gr.10 entries start a bit further down the page. N.J.Gr.10 was also at Redlin, in fact they lost a Ju 88G-1, WNr 714254 in the same attack.

I thought the FW 190G-3 was a ground attack aircraft and not a nightfighter, and haven't doubted this entry with regards to unit until now, but from recollection I seem to remember that 1.Staffel N.J.Gr.10 was using Bf 109 and FW 190.

We need to get this right!!!

Kindest regards,
Andreas

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

John Beaman
The Fw 190G-3...
Wed Jul 21, 2004 15:51
24.163.23.156

...was the A-6 modified for long range missions. It was originally for long-range attack, however, with its "wet" wing system and the ability to carry drop tanks it was used by night-fighter units and was sometimes equipped with radar.

IIRC, NJr 10 was the equivalent of an "operational testing" unit and used a number of G-3s fitted with radar. There are several photos of these a/c.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

David Pausey
Who attacked Redlin on 22.2.1945 ?? (nm)
Wed Jul 21, 2004 16:38
195.92.67.71

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Andreas Brekken
mfm-12 - what document
Wed Jul 21, 2004 15:19
83.109.184.139

Hi, John.

I use the microfiche for research of the Gen.Qu.6.Abt losses, and thus use the original document name as a reference (as You can see from my other entry)

Could You pls check the name of the docuemnt You have used?

It is the listing with the standing format, right?

Regards,
Andreas

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

G.R.Morrison
The source was Gen.Qu.6.Abt.
Wed Jul 21, 2004 16:29
4.233.149.154

When Jim P & I typed the db, we used 'mfm' to abbreviate 'microfilm'; in this case roll #12. We have other 'oddball' abbreviations for other sources that we used, too. Sorry if it was a source of confusion!

Hope this clarifies, GRM

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Andreas Brekken
Hi, G.R., not confused, only
Wed Jul 21, 2004 20:51
129.240.240.46

wanted to know if You had taken the info from the exact same source I had.

Th microfilm rolls contain filmed original documents, and they have their own document number, usually in the form xxx/45 for the ones issued in 45.

In addition, every entry has a lfd.Nr., so that the officials could reference it later.

Thus for example if a correction was sent in from a unit, there would be a correction added to a later document stating that for entry 46 in the report of 2.3.45 the pilot was found drowned in the sea (or something similar).

I was just asking to see if the document that was included on microfilm roll #12 was the same one that I have read from on my microfiche, especially since John Beaman have stated that Your entry was N.J.Gr.10, whereas I have J.Gr.10 (note that I have not made any corrections to this entry based on other info yet, this is exactly what is stated in the original document, unless I have made a typo, and I will check that tomorrow)

Regards and keep up the good work,
Andreas

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Andreas Brekken
FW 190G-3 WNr 160074 is J.Gr.10 not N.J.Gr.10
Thu Jul 22, 2004 17:30
80.212.199.88

Hi, John.

I have now rechecked the mikrofiche, and if You have noted N.J.Gr.10, this is not what is on the mikrofiche.

As stated earlier, there are three consecutive losses noted for J.Gr.10, with the G-3 in the middle. There are one later entry in the list, also from Redlin, from N.J.Gr.10 but this is Ju 88G-1 WNr 714254, 40% damaged.

I think You should check Your microfilm also, to really see if Yours have N.J.Gr.10 on it. Look at page 3 of the report of 15.03.1945. The lfd.Nr. in my report is 19.

Regards,
Andreas

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Norbert Schuchbauer
Fw 190 G-3
Fri Jul 23, 2004 23:07
24.10.93.253

Hi Andreas,
it reads exactly how you stated, this is what I have:
19. 22-02-45 J.Gr. 10 F AF Redlin Low level attack Fw 190 G-3 160074 35%

Source RL III/1197 page 174

Hope this helps,

Norbert

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Andreas Brekken
FW 190F-8, WNr 58????
Wed Jul 21, 2004 14:44
83.109.184.139

Hi.

This FW 190F-8 was damaged by flying pieces of other aircraft or equipment sent sky high by bombs from a low level attack on 21.02.1945 while with I./S.G.10.

Has anyone been able to decipher the full WNr and the loss percentage, or have this from other sources than the Qu.Gen.?

Regards,
Andreas

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

John Beaman
possible...
Wed Jul 21, 2004 15:01
24.163.23.156

Fw190F-8 5843x1 I. SG 10 21-Feb-45 Tiefangriff? RVT Ost (Lfl. 4) Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #12) location not reported 30% F

[Richard T Eger]

This is an administrative message to place this series of topics in correct order.

Regards,
Richard