WASt A/C loss vs. LW Genst.Gen.Qu.6.Abt. injury/death reports; missing loss reports-2

[Richard T Eger]

In a 12 O'clock High! discussion around the recently offered Generalquartiermeister loss list CD, I asked Christer Bergström about the need to have the WASt lists, too. From 12 O'clock High!:

Richard T. Eger
But what about the WASt lists?
Fri Jan 12 01:12:25 2026


Yes, I know these are closed to the general public, but don't we need them to get the dates right?

Regards,
Richard

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Jim P.
Re: But what about the WASt lists?
Fri Jan 12 01:25:58 2026


Not necessarily. But the 1944 stuff will be missing without a cross ref to the WASt stuff. And for many here who've constructed their own databases on their topics of
interest such as yourself and the 262 (if I recall correctly) its 'been there, done that'.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Richard T. Eger
Re: What About the WASt lists?
Fri Jan 12 02:06:26 2026


Jim,

At the risk of appearing a bit stupid here, I'm going to display a bit of ignorance on the subject. My understanding is that the Quartermaster reports were not necessarily
accurate as to the date of the actual event. For instance, reports could accumulate for a week or two and then get posted with the date of posting, not the date of the event.
Is this correct? Further, the WASt reports, on the other hand, were supposed to have the correct date of the event but, since they contained personal information, these
were withdrawn from public access about 1990 and thus we don't have the cross-check really needed. Again, please correct me.

Now, going into further areas of pure ignorance, we come to the actual combat claims. While we have repeatedly heard of the Quartermaster lists at the BA/MA-Freiburg
and the WASt lists at WASt, I really haven't heard of a similar named documentation and its archiving for claims. So, I would appreciate a bit of an education in this regard.

I would assume then, that the best method would be to triangulate all three sources. Overlaying these might be reports of losses for the day, i.e., 3 Bf 109's, and then try to
back guess by process of elimination exactly which aircraft and pilot was lost, assuming we couldn't pin it down any other way.

While you've got my aircraft of interest correctly pegged as the Me 262, I have not personally had the fun of delving into these loss records. In 1990, with the first publication
of Foreman's and Harvey's "The Messerschmitt Me.262 Combat Diary", there was an enormous amount of detailed information on the actual losses that became available.
The authors noted the use of the Quartermaster loss reports, but also noted that their efforts were hampered by the missing loss reports for 1944, which we all are
continuing to seek. From my point of research, this was the first time that such detail had been made available and assume that these were the first authors to make true
use of the Quartermaster reports for the Me 262. It was a breakthrough event. Since then, everyone seems to have gotten onto the bandwagon, which is all for the good.
(Okay, I'm speaking strictly in regard to the Me 262 re. timing).

And yet, I believe there are still holes that need to be filled in. Dan O'Connell has been attempting to do just that. Still, I personally would like to know as much as possible
about available original source documentation, so please correct me where I've erred above and add what you think might be of interest.

Regards,
Richard

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Artie Bob
Loss list info
Fri Jan 12 13:40:38 2026


The QM lists were posted by the date they were apparently received at the collection and input point. They, however, include the date of the loss (which could be days or
sometimes even months from the posting date. Also, periodically there would be an erratum page correcting dates, units, location, etc. So even though there are many
errors, the basic information is there.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Richard T. Eger
Re. WASt lists
Fri Jan 12 14:01:55 2026


Dear Artie Bob,

Thanks for that very good clarification. So, they do have the correct loss dates - it's just a matter of being willing to root around the time period to find the losses for a
specific date.

Regards,
Richard

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Nick Beale
Correct Loss Dates
Sat Jan 13 16:12:35 2026


Trust No One! ...or at least no one source. There are errors in the QMG material probably because a unit would send in a batch of reports, sometines weeks after the event
and because humans make mistakes. For a night flight they will use the date of take off you don't know if that was 00.01 or 23.59 hours. In the latter case, the loss could
occur after midnight and so on the day after take off. Always a problem when correlating with Allied victory claims - it's certainly led me into mistakes in the past. As for the
WASt material, sometimes there are two reports for the same loss and details differ. If two multi-seat aircraft were lost on one op there can be confusion as to who was in
which crew. then a veteran's log book may say something else, perhaps because these were often made up by a clerk rather than the airman himslef (or so I thin Don
Caldwell said in JG 26).

In the end you can only gather as many German and Alllied sources as you can find (inc. PW interrogations which nearly always have a section on "Last Flight" and use
your best judgement.