German Victory claims

[Ben Garrison]

Hello,
I was always curious at the seemingly outragous kill counts claimed by axis pilots, particularly German aces. America's highest scoring ace of the war only had 40 credited to him, compared with 352 credited to Hartmann. I was interested in discussing why there was such a huge rift between these numbers. Does it all have do to with German pilots serving longer tours against inferior aircraft and pilots (Russian air force) combined with dishonesty and propaganda needs? I also wanted to know if the Luftwaffe employed gun cameras.

[Andrew Arthy]

Ben,

While the claims by Luftwaffe pilots certainly seem outrageous, the German air force in World War II had just as rigorous standards for confirmation of victories as did any other air force. One reason for the high victory claims was the fact Luftwaffe pilots - unlike their RAF counterparts - weren't ordered to rest from combat for long periods of time, they just had a few days or a weeks leave then returned to the fray again. In this way, some pilots would see two or three years at the front!!! Quite amazing, but it explains why many were so successful.

With regards to inferior opponents, this is not entirely true. Although the highest scoring aces (Hartmann, Kittel, Nowotny and others) scored their victories on the Eastern Front, many of these victories were scored in 1943 and 1944, by which time the Luftwaffe was no longer as superior in numbers (and in equipment) to the Russians. Also, many Luftwaffe aces (Hans-Joachim Marseille for example - 150+ victories) faced the USA and Britain, but still managed to score victories.

BTW - the Luftwaffe did use gun cameras.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Andrew Arthy

[Dave Brown]

The USAAF rotated their pilots out of combat after a certain number of missions. These veterans trained new recruits. The Germans fought until they died. That's why a lot of Germans shot down a lot of planes.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS,Verdana, Arial[/IMG]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ben Garrison:
Hello,
I was always curious at the seemingly outragous kill counts claimed by axis pilots, particularly German aces. America's highest scoring ace of the war only had 40 credited to him, compared with 352 credited to Hartmann. I was interested in discussing why there was such a huge rift between these numbers. Does it all have do to with German pilots serving longer tours against inferior aircraft and pilots (Russian air force) combined with dishonesty and propaganda needs? I also wanted to know if the Luftwaffe employed gun cameras. [/quote]

[Jon L. Thorsteinsson]

Hello there.
A hot subject though. Every nation claimed more victories than were confirmed. The Brits overclaimed quite much in the Battle of Britain, the Luftwaffe overclaimed even more.
Marseille with his incredible 17 victories against the RAF in one day is still being doubted, for the losses in that area don't add up to that number by the RAF, by far!
I have been comparing Luftwaffe claims with actual losses of the RAF in the year 1942. Sometimes the numbers fit exactly, sometimes the overclaims are double, sometimes there are even claims where there were no losses.
There are famous LW aces amongst those!
Still, most are right, and although Hartmann's incredible figure might be a little lower in reality, it is still very very high. Why, was well explained in a reply here above. Simple as it was, the LW pilots fought untill they died. And since they fought largely over their own territory, it allowed the privilege of being shot down and yet fly again. Gunther Rall was shot down 8 times, Rudorffer 17 times, even Marseille was shot down. Both Galland and Mölders were shot down. Mölders was taken prisoner, but it was in France, so he was liberated by the German forces when France fell.
Take a 200 kill ace and divide with 17, and the figure is nothing stunning any more. So many allied aces ended their ace career as POW's.. . names like R.S.Tuck, Boyington, etc. Others were rotated to become instructors, and eventually that proved to be a better strategy than the German one. Better man an airforce with well trained pilots and veterans, rather than a handfull of aces, and newbies for the rest.
Well, enough of that....