Books on Bf 110

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

RikBody
Bf110
Thu May 3 19:59:16 2001


Please caan anyone help me.
I need to know specifically, how the Bf110 G-4 was armed
and were they capable of carrying a third crew member?
The particular aircraft that I am interested in was
from 7/NJG1 based Leeuwarden. July 1944
Work No. 730036
Code G9+ER
If you can help it will be very much appreciated and will
go a long way to solving another bit of the jigsaw!

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Tony Williams
Re: Bf110
Thu May 3 21:46:07 2001


According to Green's old (and not entirely reliable) book, the G4 night fighter was basically armed with four forward-firing 7.92mm MG 17s and two 20mm MG 151. However, the R3, R6 and R7 variants had two 30mm MK 108 and two MG 151 forward firing, and two upward-firing 20mm MG-FF.

Tony Williams
Author: "Rapid Fire: The development of automatic cannon, heavy machine guns and their ammunition for armies, navies and air forces"
Details on my military gun and ammunition website:
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk


[This message has been edited by Richard T Eger (edited 10 March 2002).]

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Xtrav
Re: Bf110
Fri May 4 00:56:30 2001


Any details on how the upward firing 20mm worked?

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Charles Metz
Bf 110 G-4 MG FF "schräge Muzik"
Fri May 4 01:53:14 2001


Xtraw,

Here's a situation where one picture can be worth at least a thousand words. Photos and/or drawings of the Bf 110 G-4's MG FF "schräge Muzik" installation have been published in the books I'm listing below. The basic -- and very effective -- strategy employed with these oblique dorsal cannon was to fly "in formation" slightly below an RAF bomber (most of which had no ventral windows or turrets) and then fire upward into one of the bomber's wing fuel tanks.

Charles Metz

---------------------------------------------------

Ebert, Kaiser and Peters: 'Willy Messerschmitt — Pioneer of Aviation Design' (The History of German Aviation series, No. 3; Schiffer [USA], 1993; 435 pages; US$49.95) [English translation of "Willy Messerschmitt — Pionier des Luftfahrt und des Leichbaues" (Bernard & Graefe Verlag [Germany, date unkown])] -- page 162

Jarrett (ed.): 'Aircraft of the Second World War: The Development of the Warplane 1939-49' (Putnam's History of Aircraft series [unnumbered]; Putnam [UK], 1997; 304 pages; US$48.95) -- page 78

Ledwoch: 'Bf 110, vol. 2' (Wydawnictwo Militaria series, No. 114; Wydawnictwo "Militaria" [Poland], 2000; in Polish and English; 78 pages; US$19) -- page 32

Ledwoch: 'Messerschmitt Bf 110' (Aircraft Monograph series, No. 3; AJ Press [Poland], 1994; in English; 56 pages; US$14.95) -- page 55

Mackay: 'Messerschmitt Bf 110' (Crowood Aviation series [unnumbered]; Crowood [UK], 2000; 192 pages; US$44.95) -- pages 135, 137, 148 and 189

Price: 'Battle over the Reich' (Scribner's [USA], 1973; 208 pages; approximate value US$15 [out of print]) -- page 80

Price: 'Messerschmitt Bf 110 Night Fighters' (Aircraft Profile series, No. 207; Profile Publications [UK], 1971; 20 pages; approximate value US$5 [out of print]) -- page 49

Reynolds: 'Camouflage & Markings: Luftwaffe 1939-1945' (Argus Books [UK], 1992; 48 pages; approximate value US$10 [out of print]) -- page 10

Ries: 'Deutsche Luftwaffe über der Schweitz' (Verlag Dieter Hoffmann [Germany], 1978; in German and English; 112 pages; approximate value US$25 [out of print]) -- page 65

Weal: "Luftwaffe Nachtflieger, Part 2." In 'Wings of Fame, Volume 15' [quarterly periodical] (Aerospace / AIRtime [UK / USA], 1999; 160 pages; US$16) -- page 105

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Tony Williams
Re: Bf 110 G-4 MG FF "schräge Muzik"
Fri May 4 07:43:37 2001


From late 1943 onwards, the Luftwaffe reckoned that as much as 80% of their night fighter kills were made with the upward-firing guns. The old low-velocity MG-FF was used because the range was extremely short, and the guns were shorter and lighter than the MG 151s. Tracers were not used, to avoid giving any warning, and it was a long time before the RAF realised what was going on. This was more than surprising given that the British had made considerable use of upward firing guns in WW1, and had experimented with them during the interwar period and even into WW2.

Tony Williams
Author: "Rapid Fire: The development of automatic cannon, heavy machine guns and their ammunition for armies, navies and air forces"
Details on my military gun and ammunition website:
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk


[This message has been edited by Richard T Eger (edited 10 March 2002).]

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Xtrav
Thanks to you both n/t
Sat May 5 07:00:31 2001

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Sergio Luis dos Santos
New book on Me-110/210/410 in Germany
Tue May 15 21:02:14 2001


Aviatic Verlag announced the book Messerschmitt Bf-110/Me-210/Me-410 by Heinz Mankau and Peter Petrick.
336 pages with 500 images (photos and ilustrations) for DM 68,00 www.aviatic.de (http://www.aviatic.de)
Looks interesting...

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Kjetil Aakra
Mini-review - Messerschmitt Bf110-Me 210-Me 410
Thu Sep 20 15:29:35 2001


Some time ago someone brought my attention to the following book in regard to a question dealing with the Bf 110F and G variants. I have now purchased this book and since it is relatively new (summer 2001) and so good I believe a small review might be of interest to others.

Title: Messerschmitt Bf 110 - Me 210 - Me 410. Die Messerschmitt-Zerstörer und ihre Konkurrenten.
Authors: Heinz Mankau & Peter Petrick
Publisher: Aviatic Verlag ( http://www.aviatic.de/ )
Details:360 pages, a lot of photos, diagrams, works drawings, hand book illustrations, appendices, etc.

Review:

The book is basically divided into two main parts, the first consisting of histories (chronik) of the Bf 110 (including the FW 57 and the Hs 124), the Ar 240 and the Me 210/410. This section is a detailed chronologically arranged list of events important to each type. It makes for fascinating reading and is illustrated with a large number of photographs.

The most valuable and interesting section is the other one however, dealing with a technical review of all variants and subvariants built of each type (i.e. the FW 57, the Hs 124, Bf 110, Me 210, Me 410 and Ar 240 and some projected Zerstörers, the Li P 10 and Me 329). Here we finally have a detailed account showing us the differences between the Bf 110 variants, and boy, let me tell you, most of the older literature is now obsolete! I was very pleased to finally have a reliable reference for the difference between the Bf 110F and G (Olve, we were alomost 100 % right!). There is also a lot of interesting information on the very early Bf 110C series. The same goes for the sections on the other types, a lot of useful information that no doubt will be useful when identifying subtypes from photographs. This section of the book is very well illustrated, with photographs of the relevant subtypes which are actually placed exactly where they should, next to the text describing the subtype and not 3-4 pages later! This section also contains a lot of works drawings, schematics and hand book photographs and some excellent drawings of the interior of early Bf 110Cs which will be extremely useful to modelers.

There are several interesting drawings of projected Me 410 versions in the book, including one with longer wings and Me 410C/D engine cowlings and a projected night-fighter variant with 30 mm Schråäge-Musik, a new He 219-style canopy and radar.

There is not much unit history or information on the operational use of the various types, but that is not the scope of the book as I see it.

The book ends with a list of Rüstsätze for the Me 410 with drawings showing placement, etc.; a production list of the Bf 110 and Me 210/410 showing how many were built of all variants, when they were built and by which factory as well as their W.Nr.(sadly not St.Kz); a list of prototypes and test airframes; a detailed account of engines used and finally a substantial reference list.

Of the photographs there were some that caught my attention in particular, including (you may not find them as interesting as I did!):

- the MK 101-equipped Bf 110C-6 (12 built) in service with SKG 210
- a Bf 110 with what appears to be a puls-jet fitted above the tail (nothing more is know about this one)!
- A Bf 110C-3 coded 1E+9B (that's right, 9B!)
- two photos of the Ar 240A-04/U-2 (coded T9+GL)which I have not seen before
- several Bf 110Bs with mottled camouflage (74/75/76???)
- a black-painted Bf 110E-1 with blue Dackelbauch in service with 6./NJG 1!
- several Troikaschlepp Bf 110s
- Bf 110F-4s (I at least, had not seen that variant in print before)
- a Bf 110G-2 with six W.Gr. 21 (two extra below the fuselage)
- several interesting photographs of the Me 210V-1
- the appearance of the waffenwanne fitted to the me 410A-1/U-2 (also unknow to me)
- a

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Sergio Luis dos Santos
Thanks for this "mini" review
Thu Sep 20 15:45:58 2001


Just let me know from which German bookseler you got it!
Bye,

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Tom Fischer
Website
Thu Sep 20 15:57:27 2001


Directly from the publisher:

www.aviatic.de (http://www.aviatic.de)

and

http://www.aviatic.de/buch/3-925505-62-8.html

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Sergio Luis dos Santos
Thanks! I forget it... and have seen the ad
Thu Sep 20 19:55:21 2001


and posted here the news about the book... Memory sometimes fades !!

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Tony Williams
Bf 110C-6
Mon Sep 24 08:42:37 2001


Thanks for the review. Are any details given of the armament or use of the C-6 version with the 30mm MK 101?

I have read a contemporary British report on one which was shot down over England in August 1940. It stated that the gun used 10-round drum magazines (in contrast with the usually-given 6-round box) and that the plane carried eight of them, implying that the rear gunner could change the magazines in flight.

Tony Williams
Author: "Rapid Fire: The development of automatic cannon, heavy machine guns and their ammunition for armies, navies and air forces"
Details on my military gun and ammunition website:
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk


[This message has been edited by Richard T Eger (edited 10 March 2002).]

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Kjetil Aakra
Bf 110C-6
Tue Sep 25 07:47:46 2001


Sorry, there are no such details given about the MK 101 fitted to the Bf 110C-6.

Kjetil

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Dick Powers
110 Book
Fri Nov 2 17:57:44 2001


This new book was posted to an aviation book web site:

MESSERCHMITT Bf 110, Me 210, Me 410, Mankau & Petrick, Aviatic Verlag

Can anyone provide details? I know it's in German, but is it primarily photos and drawings or text. I have been loking for a good 110 reference. I browswd through the book by Crowood and found it to be disappointing.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Jim H.
Re: 110 Book
Fri Nov 2 23:00:20 2001


MESSERSCHMITT Bf110 - Me210 - Me410: Die Messerschmitt Zerstörer und ihre Konkurrenten by Mankau & Petrick (Aviatic Verlag 2001). Hard Cover, with 360 pages, including 276 b&w photos and 65+ b&w illustrations. A technical and production history, not an operational account. German text only. Chapters include: Chronik der Bf110 (mit FW57 und Hs124); Chronik der Ar240; Chronik der Me210/410; Baureihenübersicht; Rüstsätze der Me410; Baureihen, Werknummern, Stückzahlen; Prototypen und Versuchsträger; Motoren und Triebwerk der Zerstörer; Literaturverzeichnis.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Larry Hickey
Bf-110 Book
Fri Nov 2 23:50:46 2001


Dick,

I just got my copy from Christian Schmidt a couple of days ago. This is almost exclusively a technical history and there are almost no photos of planes in operational units. It does have the W.Nr. series for the three aircraft type, by manufacturer and dates of each production block. However, at least for the Bf-110, these only match by sub-type the reported loss subtypes in the Luft. QM records about half the time. (ie. one says C-4 and other says C-2). Very useful publication for what it is, but not much help on the operational side.

Larry Hickey

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Dick Powers
Jim and Larry...
Sat Nov 3 00:03:59 2001


..thanks to you both.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Tom Fischer
Book Review...
Sat Nov 3 20:12:13 2001


Dick

The following review was posted here on September 20, by Kjetil Aakra (and like Kjetil, I myself find the book absolutely fantastic and well worth the wait and price):


Mini-review - Messerschmitt Bf110-Me 210-Me 410
Thu Sep 20 15:29:35 2001

Some time ago someone brought my attention to the following book in regard to a question dealing with the Bf 110F and G variants. I have now purchased this book and since it is relatively new (summer 2001) and so good I believe a small review might be of interest to others.

Title: Messerschmitt Bf 110 - Me 210 - Me 410. Die Messerschmitt-Zerstörer und ihre Konkurrenten.
Authors: Heinz Mankau & Peter Petrick
Publisher: Aviatic Verlag (http://www.aviatic.de/)
Details:360 pages, a lot of photos, diagrams, works drawings, hand book illustrations, appendices, etc.

Review:

The book is basically divided into two main parts, the first consisting of histories (chronik) of the Bf 110 (including the FW 57 and the Hs 124), the Ar 240 and the Me 210/410. This section is a detailed chronologically arranged list of events important to each type. It makes for fascinating reading and is illustrated with a large number of photographs.

The most valuable and interesting section is the other one however, dealing with a technical review of all variants and subvariants built of each type (i.e. the FW 57, the Hs 124, Bf 110, Me 210, Me 410 and Ar 240 and some projected Zerstörers, the Li P 10 and Me 329). Here we finally have a detailed account showing us the differences between the Bf 110 variants, and boy, let me tell you, most of the older literature is now obsolete! I was very pleased to finally have a reliable reference for the difference between the Bf 110F and G (Olve, we were alomost 100 % right!). There is also a lot of interesting information on the very early Bf 110C series. The same goes for the sections on the other types, a lot of useful information that no doubt will be useful when identifying subtypes from photographs. This section of the book is very well illustrated, with photographs of the relevant subtypes which are actually placed exactly where they should, next to the text describing the subtype and not 3-4 pages later! This section also contains a lot of works drawings, schematics and hand book photographs and some excellent drawings of the interior of early Bf 110Cs which will be extremely useful to modelers.

There are several interesting drawings of projected Me 410 versions in the book, including one with longer wings and Me 410C/D engine cowlings and a projected night-fighter variant with 30 mm Schråäge-Musik, a new He 219-style canopy and radar.

There is not much unit history or information on the operational use of the various types, but that is not the scope of the book as I see it.

The book ends with a list of Rüstsätze for the Me 410 with drawings showing placement, etc.; a production list of the Bf 110 and Me 210/410 showing how many were built of all variants, when they were built and by which factory as well as their W.Nr.(sadly not St.Kz); a list of prototypes and test airframes; a detailed account of engines used and finally a substantial reference list.

Of the photographs there were some that caught my attention in particular, including (you may not find them as interesting as I did!):

- the MK 101-equipped Bf 110C-6 (12 built) in service with SKG 210
- a Bf 110 with what appears to be a puls-jet fitted above the tail (nothing more is know about this one)!
- A Bf 110C-3 coded 1E+9B (that's right, 9B!)
- two photos of the Ar 240A-04/U-2 (coded T9+GL)which I have not seen before
- several Bf 110Bs with mottled camouflage (74/75/76???)
- a black-painted Bf 110E-1 with blue Dackelbauch in service with 6./NJG 1!
- several Troikaschlepp Bf 110s
- Bf 110F-4s (I at least, had not seen that variant in print before)
- a Bf 110G-2 with six W.Gr. 21 (two extra below th

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Dénes Bernád
I'll wait until Schiffer will publish it in English (n/t)
Mon Nov 5 21:26:29 2001

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Les Whitehouse
110 book and 110F
Tue Nov 6 11:37:32 2001


I note with interest your plea for information regarding Bf 110 book and it remined me of the posting on F models and the difficulty in deciding between the F and G models unless the rear canopy can be seen. My apologies for the delay in responding but I had to go back through my data to confirm the current state of knowledge and this reply covers both this question and the book data.

There is a deeper problem than many people realise in that, apart from the engine fit data, serial number or (sometimes) the earlier canopy rear structure, there is no possibility of deciding between F & G models as all the differences are centered on the 601 vs 605 engine. What has happened in the past 30 years is that researchers
(myself included) have followed the premise that the deeper radiator and original spinner is the F model, the enlarged spinner a late F or F-4 model and the enlarged rudder an F-4 or G model. This was incorrect. The enlarged radiator was part of the tropical kit for E models – along with the sand filter intakes, “tubed” MG17 sand covers and internal sun blinds. Similarly, the “troika-schlepp” aircraft used to tow the Me321 in service prior to the He111Z introduction were also fitted with this enlarged radiator, almost certainly by conversion (other changes such as reinforcing cables from the rear fuselage to the mainspar and a modified tailcone also of course). So small spinners and the radiator do not define an F model. This leaves us the situation that a large spinner and radiator appear to define an F or G and the F manual allows both types of rear canopy, so the only external defining item is if it just happens to have the early canopy rather than the late canopy fitted. If not it could be an F or G depending only on the engine fit. There is however an extra small intake forward and above the exhaust on the G (as with the Bf109G), not fitted on the F engine.

There now exists an excellent book for researchers and modellers who do not have access to many Bf110 manuals. Messerschmitt Bf110, Me210, Me410 by Heinz Mankau amd Peter Petrick; Aviatic Verlag, Oberhaching; Pub. 2001, ISBN 3-925505-62-8. (German Language).

It’s a bit weird at first sight as it has none of the current fancy artistic 3-views, concentrating only on manual extracts “as drawn”. The first half is a series of dated reports or comments extracted from records offering a chronological history of known information on the types. The second half covers all of the built standards and sub types, mod kits etc. with back references to the handbooks and documents where they are found. Even a list of all serial numbers and constructors (but sadly not allocated codes) plus prototype serial numbers and their codes. Some of the more obscure photographs I have not seen before, such as the 110V9 with a 210 style clear flat panel nose or a G-4 with Fug216 “vertical aerial array” It also manages to briefly cover Fw57, Hs124, Ar240 series, so is more correctly a book on Germany’s “Destroyer” aircraft, and all for about £25.00 in the UK.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

John Vasco
Bf110/Me210/Me410 book
Wed Nov 21 21:04:11 2001


It's a good book, but beware, there are a couple of errors I have identified.

1. The 30 mm. cannon in the Bf 110 C-6 was the MG101, not MK 101. MK (Maschine-Kanone) came in later in the war as a designation. MG (Maschine-Gewehr) was the name in 1940, as in the 20 mm. cannons in the 109 and 110 (i.e. MG-FF).

2. The Bf 110 C-6s were first of all used by 1st Staffel of ZG 1 at the back end of the French campaign. Victor Molders advised me of that during my earleir research on the Bf 110 in 1940. 1st Staffel, ZG 1 took them with them when they formed the 1st Staffel of Erprobungsgruppe 210, and 210 used them during the Battle of Britain. Those not lost in action moved with the unit when they were redesignated SKG 210 in April 1941, and some were still on charge with ZG 1 into 1942.


John Vasco