Books on Adolf Dickfeld

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Rob Romero
Adolf Dickfeld's Autobiography
Mon Feb 25 20:09:53 2002
165.155.160.44

Does anyone have any general impression of "Footsteps of the Hunter"? Is it worth buying? Incidentally I read the passage in another book of where he claims a P-47 kill in an He-162. Though I realize this claim has been derided on this board, his claim strikes me a matter of fact and believable. Anyhow I'm more interested in a general impression of this 132 victory experten.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Paulo Dario
Dickfeld's book
Mon Feb 25 20:29:44 2002
200.202.0.110

Does anyone have any general impression of "Footsteps of the Hunter"? Is it worth buying? Incidentally I read the passage in another book of where he claims a P-47 kill in
an He-162. Though I realize this claim has been derided on this board, his claim strikes me a matter of fact and beleivable. Anyhow I'm more interested in a general
impression of this 132 victory experten

I find it a great book, good reading, very interestings thoughts about the war itself.
It does not have those very detailed events (with dates and etc) that professional LW researchers need/want, but that's not my case...
And the 162 stuff appears to me also as written with conviction to being telling a truth, and although derided here in the past (no matches in claims/losses,...), who knows...??
If you're not so short on the budget I'd recomend it.
Regards

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Don Caldwell
It's totally without merit as history
Mon Feb 25 20:53:37 2002
204.136.184.34

There are very few dates or other specifics that can be compared against historical data, and the few events that I checked just don't stand up. The He 162 unit that he supposedly commanded in combat was JG 80, the "Hitler-Jugend Geschwader". This unit was disbanded before it ever formed, once it became obvious to all but the blindest political partisans that the Heinkel could not be flown in combat by untrained youths, no matter how ideologically-committed.

The elaborate story he tells of a combat that resulted in a bad injury, costing him his command of II/JG 11 and leading to a forced transfer to Berlin, is totally bogus. He left JG 11 in April 1943, uninjured, to become "General fuer den Nachwuchs der Luftwaffe" and "Reichsinspekteur der Flieger-HJ" at the RLM, apparently retaining those posts for the rest of the war. He was never ordered back to an operational unit, despite the Jagdwaffe's extreme shortage of successful formation leaders in 1944-45. He hints at his political leanings in the book, but I'm sure that what he left out was much more interesting than what he included.

Don

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

NickM
Dickfeld's book
Tue Feb 26 04:46:44 2002
152.163.204.211

Hi:

I recall, a very long time ago on this forum, a person who had actually helped Dickfeld with translating his story into English; the reason he gave for no dates being given was because the book was written as Dickfeld was nearing 80 & all of his logbooks were lost, so much of his flying adventures were from memory; In spite of it's faults it is a good read...quite like Clostermann's memoirs, it gives a good 'feel' for the experience...apparently the guy spent alot of time on the ground & tripping over some very gruesome stuff while doing it...I also got the impression he was a bit of a, well for lack of a better word, serial womanizer-in spite of being married...all in all, I think it's a good book to own or at least to get from the library;

NickM

[This message has been edited by Richard T Eger (edited 25 March 2002).]

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Don Caldwell
A lack of logbooks is no excuse for flat-out lying....
Tue Feb 26 13:55:14 2002
204.136.184.34

...which I know is the case WRT Dickfeld's departure from JG 11, and I strongly suspect characterizes all of his He 162 flights. If you want a "good read", buy a novel! If you're not interested in separating truth from fiction, why do you spend any time on this board?

Don

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Ciglic
I absolutely agree with you Don...
Tue Feb 26 15:41:30 2002
212.124.160.1

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Walter Kern
Authenticity
Thu Feb 28 15:29:24 2002
216.68.35.109

HI THERE,

I wonder in all that drive to absolute authenticity and truth how the prominent Stephen Ambrose, the now celebrated Author, lecturer and WW2 expert, who is presently featured on many TV programs stacks up against the other culprits?

Walter Kern

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

NickM
RE:lack of logbook
Wed Feb 27 01:56:11 2002
152.163.207.181

Whoa there, Nelly!
Dr McCoy, you must calm yourself; your emotions will be you undoing...

yet logically, you are right that we should not waste our efforts on blatantly false info...I cannot argue with that...let's just say that I can treat it like a novel without giving too much stock in it & just view it as a Wilbur Smith 'period piece'...insights are rare enough as it is & I will take what I can get; besides all those novels written post war about the LW are so 'self aware'-aware of what Germany did during the war-in any rate they're pretty dang scarce in the English language...I am only an amateur historian but I've got enough info on hand to wade thru the 'baloney'; If I gotta have the facts I go to guys like Shores, Freeman, Cull & you to name a few...

NOW...

I was going to ask about how Dickfeld managed to stay out of combat just as the Combined Air Offensive against Germany was heating up...I see it was addressed already in a prior post;
So, since you mentioned it: do you have any novels on 'this subject' you can recommend??

NickM,

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

RD
Who has never lied in his all life ?
Wed Feb 27 02:11:32 2002
203.216.66.10

Talk about a 2X4 beam thrown between someone's eyes... I know only one other scholar on this board capable of such sharpness. http://www.lwag.org/ubb/redface.gif) Hope you will recover from that one ! And don't feel like you have to leave this board.

Who has never lied in his life ? I would say that Dickfeld's ones are not that big compared to what we hear on TV every day from the mouth of our highly paid CEOs and polioticians alike.

But as Caldwell pointed out his biography is unreliable enough to present little if any interest from a researcher point of view.

As to throw away the book all together I wouldn't go that far. Despite the rumblings, colored memories or lies I believe that as an 80 old man who has been through times that we luckily will never have to experience ourselves he probably has a few things to tell us that a modern novellist writing about WW2 will never suck out of his pen.

Caldwell's above posting is probably right on or very close to the truth regarding Dickfeld's past and motivations but then whatever his sins we should be careful to judge him too quickly and to conclude that we got the all thing figured out.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Rob Romero
Dickfeld's overall record??
Tue Feb 26 18:44:28 2002
165.155.160.46

Don, Gordon & everyone thanks for your thoughtful answers. Given your views, does this put his overall record as an experten with 132 claims in serious question. If I recall, he flew largely with JG 52, which Chris Bergstrom noted to be a unit whose claims tended to jive with Russian losses (ie. it seems they did not support or put up with exagerated claims unlike other units like JG 5).

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Don Caldwell
I have no reason to doubt his Ostfont claims.
Tue Feb 26 19:21:51 2002
204.136.184.34

He could well have been a crackerjack pilot in JG 52. But something obviously ate on him postwar. I'm not going to try to psychoanalyze the man, but there is something fishy about his permanent departure from the front in 1943 for a Berlin desk job that was more political than military in nature. He was given a make-work job with the Hitler Youth when the Luftwaffe was scraping the bottom of the barrel for combat leaders. We don't like to use this word here, but he was obviously a deeply committed Nazi. I see his memoir as a confused attempt by an elderly man to justify his youthful actions to himself. And had someone pointed this out to me in time, I would not have spent my money on the book.

Don

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Rob Romero
Question for Don Caldwell
Fri Mar 8 19:56:28 2002
165.155.128.42

Don a couple of weeks back, I asked for commentary on Adolf Dickfeld's autobiography. I wonder if you could elaborate on why Dickfeld was removed from frontline operations and why he was never sent back to the front, even as things got more and more desperate. Could you also elaborate on what you meant when you wrote, "He hints at his political leanings in the book, but I'm sure that what he left out was much more interesting than what he included." If you feel more comfortable in responding of the board, you can reach me at cannae@netzero.com
Thank You,
Robert Romero

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Don Caldwell
whipping a dead horse
Fri Mar 8 22:04:49 2002
216.176.24.252

This will absolutely be the last time I'll discuss this. It's not a matter of "comfort", but of unwillingness to spend more time on an unsavory subject. Any "explanation" for Dickfeld's transfer to Berlin is just speculation, but I can't come up with one that favors Dickfeld. He was an ardent Nazi (you've got to read the book closely, which I'm not going to do again), and was given a make-work job that was created just for him, a well-known, successful Nazi pilot. While in Berlin he was the main proponent of the "Hitler-Jugend" Geschwader, which we know from Ultra was never formed. I know of no unaccounted-for He 162 units with which he could have flown; JG 1 certainly never saw him. (Of course, it's impossible to prove that he didn't find a loose He 162 to fly.) He was apparently to have commanded the JG-HJ, and it's entirely possible that in his 80s he convinced himself that he did, indeed lead them in battle. (I've got an 89-year-old father; I know how some old folks think.)

Don

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Gordon
Rob, why would you believe that claim?
Mon Feb 25 21:43:31 2002
205.188.199.52

There is no corresponding P-47 loss! Or Typhoon, Tempest, or anything else that he may have mistaken for a P-47. A claim that sounds believable is not the same as one that equates to an actual loss. With the criteria you have just laid out, everything that Clostermann says in Big Show can no be viewed as fact, simply because it sounds believable.

Footsteps of the Hunter is fine writing by a decent storyteller. Accurate, absolutely not.

v/r
Gordon

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Dénes Bernád
Dickfeld's memoirs were used in a recent article on I./JG 28
Tue Feb 26 20:52:32 2002
204.101.53.233

...published in the French magazine 'Avions', at the end of last year. Dickfeld's memoirs are a rare insight in that elusive unit's stay in Rumania.

Dénes

[This message has been edited by Richard T Eger (edited 25 March 2002).]

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Christer Bergström
I./JG 28 in forthcoming book on Graf & Grislawski
Tue Feb 26 21:55:55 2002
213.65.46.120

Please forgive me, Dénes, but what elusive unit? I./JG 28 was the most successful Jagdgruppe during World War II. Although numbered as it was before and after the fall of 1940 in Romania - III./JG 52.

Yes, I./JG 28 = III./JG 52. There will be lots of info on this in my book "Graf & Grislawski: A Pair of Aces", which will be published by Eagle Editions later this year.

http://www.graf-grislawski.elknet.pl/index.htm

Best wishes

Christer Bergström

[This message has been edited by Richard T Eger (edited 25 March 2002).]

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Dénes Bernád
I./JG 28
Wed Feb 27 20:34:12 2002
204.101.53.233

Of course, I know that I./JG 28 was atually III./JG 52.
My point was that not too many people would know this 'trick'.
When asking around: "what do you know about 'JG 28'?", I bet few persons would 'click'.

Dénes

[Richard T Eger]

Hello again

Were there any claimed (or confirmed) victories scored with following aircrafts: He 162, Do 335, Ta 154, Ar 240 (Couple of pre-production aircrafts were used by JG 5 and various recce units.), Ar 234 nightfighter and Gloster Meteor (except V1's)?

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Tom Semenza
He 162 Claims
Sun Mar 17 22:47:44 2002
152.163.194.191

According to Prien & Rodeike's "Jagdgeschwader 1 und 11," on 4 May 1945, I./JG 1 flew its last mission in the He 162 and engaged a Typhoon unit. Lt. Rudolf Schmidt of 1./JG 1 claimed one of them at 11.45. This was however apparently also claimed by, and credited, to a flak unit.

Also, in his book "Footsteps of the Hunter," Adolf Dickfeld claimed to have downed a P-47. See the discussion below regarding this claim.

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Rob Romero
Adolf Dickfeld & Kurt Welter & Heinrich Erlher
Fri Mar 22 21:25:01 2002
165.155.160.41

1) Without trying to stir up further controversies. Is Adolf Dickfeld's Footsteps of the Hunter, worthwhile as a history of the methods, tactics, and combat experiences of an experten?

2) Gordon recently asserted that few of Kurt Welter's victories were actually shot down. Does anyone have a handle on his actual record of success. And if he overclaimed so badly, why was he so admired and respected by his men, and how were his victories confirmed even if only at the unit level?

3) Concerning the recent discussion on Heinrich Erlher -his gravestone indicates he was KIA on 4 Apr 45 (not 6 Apr) -this should settle the matter.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Dick Powers
Dickfeld
Sat Mar 23 00:16:27 2002
63.150.97.2

I bought "Footsteps of the Hunter", read it and was disappointed.

As a narrrative, the text is confusing; few units are mentioned by name, fewer dates are given.

What I remember most is that he lived with an English woman in Africa and he was assigned to set up a brothel for his unit.

There is little about tactics, combat flying or aircraft. There is a lot of "I saw nothing, I know nothing.."

It would have beeen interesting to read his take on the "Aeropag" meeting that fostered the fighter pilot's "mutiny". However, it's not mentioned and I believe that he was there.

This is definatley NOT up to the standard of Hermann's "Eagle's Wings", Knoke's "I Flew for the Fuhrer", or Steinhoff's memoirs.