The Luftwaffe Archives & Records Reference Group  

Go Back   The Luftwaffe Archives & Records Reference Group > LWAG MEMBERSHIP AREA > Open Discussion Forum
Register FAQ Members List Social Groups Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-15-2010, 03:14 PM
Andrea Fabianelli Andrea Fabianelli is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2
Default Wrecks in Tuscany

Ciao to everybody.
This is my first post in this eccelent forum. I'm an italian dentist with the passion for flight, story and Luftwaffe. Recently I was able to find the wreck site of a Ju 88 T1, 1.(F)/123, lost the 8th of june 1944 and reconstruct the full story of the crew with the help of TOCH forum and other researchers. During my work I was able to find, in a old diary from a reporter, that in the same area, south of tuscany, 22th of jenuary 1944, another german airplane was lost. A friend from LBB forum posted that he knows the missing of another Ju88 from I.KG76 in Italy. Witness are indicating me where this crash happened, but I would be very grateful if someone will help me to better understand what I'm looking for.
Thank you in advance.
Andrea Fabianelli

Last edited by Andrea Fabianelli; 08-16-2010 at 12:08 AM. Reason: mistake on the date of the loss
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-15-2012, 01:21 AM
Tony Crawford Tony Crawford is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 15
Default Beaufighter crash NE of Sardinia

Ciao Andrea,
I am seeking the assistance of an Italian Air War Historian or searcher concerning the Loss of my Uncle. On 26 July 1943 at 1200 hours while strafing A German flotilla he was attacked by Italian fighters on his second pass. A number of German sailors were lost along with a V.I.P. After 8 years of searching I have accumulated much information and realize there is probably graves or church records of funerals of both the sailors lost and the V.I.P. The shipping was approaching Sardinia, which had a harbor and naval repair facility.
I would appreciate any help or direction.
With Kindest Regards,

Tony Crawford
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-25-2012, 09:19 AM
Andrea Fabianelli Andrea Fabianelli is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2
Default

Hi and sorry for my late answer...I was out of Italy
I'm not sure to be the right person, because I live quite far from Sardinia and I'm not the best in this field. If you can explain better your need I can try to give you some suggestions about other researchers with more knowledge.
Anycase I'm avaiable for any other support you need
Regards, Andrea
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-25-2012, 02:29 PM
Tony Crawford Tony Crawford is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 15
Default Beaufighter crash NE of Sardinia

Andrea,
My Uncle's Beaufighter (V 8412) crashed 8 km east of insel Caprera on 26 July 1943 at 1210 hours. He was lost after his second pass from attacking a flotilla of German barges. Per Tony Woods the victory was credited to Crew (Besatzung): unit 3/Trapo 5.
I interviewed the 415th night fighter squadron commander concerning the battle and he stated that the following day the British General over the the 242nd fighter Group, revealed to him that a very important person (VIP) on board one of the German vessels was killed. This information came from British intelligence, which probably has recorded who this VIP was and also might reflect what German maritime records would reflect the exact coordinates of the crashed plane.
It is also believed that the flotilla would have proceeded on to Oblia for repairs and perhaps emergency medical attention to the German sailors. With this in mind there should be records in Olbia of this event and perhaps witnesses.
In closing I would appreciate any help or direction.
With Kindest Regards,

Tony Crawford
1320 Stonecreek Court
Garland, Texas 75043
textonyc@verizon.net
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-27-2012, 02:16 AM
Andrew Arthy Andrew Arthy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: North Queensland, Australia
Posts: 87
Default

Hi Tony,

The unit involved, Trapo 5, was actually a transport unit, Transportgeschwader 5, which was equipped with the massive Messerschmitt Me 323 aircraft. On 26 July 1943 Me 323 Werknummer 1267 of I./Transportgeschwader 5, marked 'C8 + DG', was lost in combat with enemy aircraft near Caprera, as was Me 323 Werknummer 1270.

All the best,
Andrew A.
Air War Publications - www.facebook.com/airwarpublications
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-29-2012, 02:25 AM
Tony Crawford Tony Crawford is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 15
Default Wrecks in Tuscany

Andrew,
Am I to understand that the big Messerschmitt was shot down also near Insel Caprera on 26 July 43? I need to recheck but if I remember correctly it was a Capt. Tito that claimed victory for my Uncle's Beaufighter. I also need to recheck the kind of Italian fighter either a Re 252 or 202.
Regards,
Tony
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-02-2012, 05:35 AM
Andrew Arthy Andrew Arthy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: North Queensland, Australia
Posts: 87
Default

Hi Tony,

Yes, two Me 323s of Transportgeschwader 5 were shot down near Caprera Island off Sardinia on 26 July 1943. I'm assuming that these were lost in the same engagement in which the unit claimed two Beaufighters shot down.

Cheers
Andrew A.
Air War Publications - www.facebook.com/airwarpublications
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-11-2012, 11:48 AM
Tony Crawford Tony Crawford is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 15
Default

Hello Andrew,
I was not aware of the loss of the two Me 323s on 26 July 1943 near Caprera.
I had been told that the two Beaufighters were from different fighter groups. One Group British, which crashed in different area and time. My Uncles Squadron was the 415th NFS. BTW it is the opinion of some researchers that after the flight of 415th Beaus attacked the flotilla of German barges a VIP that was killed may have been taken to Oblia where a funeral was performed. The VIP was likely an industrialist or a politician.
I have been communicating with St. Paul, the Catolic Parrish in Oblia but my translation from English to Italian seems to be a problem.
There are a number of trails open for research in Oblia; the hospital, the repair facility at the Oblia harbor. Also the public cemetery records.
Finally could you transmit me more information on the crash of the Me 323s?
Perhaps the Beaus were attacked by escorting fighters rather than a scramble as I understand there was a radar facility in the North of Sardinia.
Kind Regards
Tony
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-14-2012, 01:21 AM
Andrew Arthy Andrew Arthy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: North Queensland, Australia
Posts: 87
Default

Hi Tony,

Unfortunately I don't have any other information about the events of 26 July 1943. I hope you have some success with your Olbia leads.

All the best,
Andrew A.

Air War Publications - www.airwarpublications.com
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-24-2012, 02:55 PM
Tony Crawford Tony Crawford is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 15
Default 26 July 1943

Hello Andrew,
I received via e mail a copy of the article about the find of the Me 323 by Italian divers. The article was dated September 13, 2012. The publication was international business times (http://www.ibtimes.com).
My Uncles Beaufighter (RAF SN V-8412) was attacked and shot down by a flight of three RE 2001 Italian fighters (per Tony Woods and the Italian Air War Historian Gianandrea Bussi).
Since the Italian fighters were of the same group as the Me 323 then it would seem likely that the Italians were flying escort for the 323. Perhaps the attack on the flotilla occurred very near the Me 323 or they were simply responsible for protecting all Axis shipping in the area.
Do you have any recommendations for locating the coordinates of the other Beaufighter that was lost on 26 July 1943?
Regards,
Tony Crawford
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-24-2012, 09:06 PM
Andrew Arthy Andrew Arthy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: North Queensland, Australia
Posts: 87
Default

Hi Tony,

I have to admit that I know almost nothing about the Mediterranean night fighter and Beaufighter units and their records, so can't help with the coordinates for the loss location of the other Beaufighter.

All the best,
Andrew A.
Reply With Quote
Reply

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode
Hybrid Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode
Threaded Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Rules
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:03 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.