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  #1  
Old 09-03-2001, 08:30 PM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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From 12 O'Clock High!:

Jaap Woortman
Flieger Regiment 63 Toul, France in 1943.
Thu Aug 2 20:27:02 2001


Dear friends,

I am looking for information about Flieger Regiment 63 in Toul, France in 1943. This basic training unit was used by the Luftwaffe for the training of Volksdeutsche and Ausland Deutsche in 1943, according to my good friend Hans. In the Bundesarchive in Freiburg in file RL 17 Dienststellen und Einheiten der Ausbildungs- und Ersatzorganisation der Luftwaffe must be a lot of information about these Flieger Regimente, but I have not seen this file during my last visit. Who can help?

Jaap
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  #2  
Old 09-03-2001, 08:31 PM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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From TOCH!:

Larry
Re: Flieger Regiment 63 Toul, France in 1943.
Thu Aug 2 23:18:28 2001


Jaap -

The little that I have probably won't help much, but at least it's a start.
Flieger-Rgt.63 was formed April 1939 at Eger and eventually had a total of 3 Btle. (I. - III.). It transferred to Toul during spring 1942. In Dec 42 the Rgts.Stab transferred to Berre in South France as part of the German occupation of the quasi-independent Vichy area following the Allied landings in Morocco and Algeria 7/8 Nov 42. Over the next few months I.Btl. moved to Cuers/NE of Toulon, II.Btl. to Istres while III.Btl. remained at Toul. By Dec 43 the Rgts.Stab had relocated to Montelimar, I.Btl. was still at Cuers, II.Btl. was now at Berre and III.Btl. had moved to Blois where it was attached to Flieger-Rgt.91. In 1944, and perhaps during the second half of 1943 also, the Regiment's recruit companies were used to guard Luftwaffe airfields throughout South France. For example, 7.Kp. was used to guard Marignane airfield and 10.Kp. St-Martin de Crau airfield SE of Arles. On 1 Aug 44 the Regiment was deployed as follows: Rgts.Stab at Nimes, I.Btl. at Remoulins, II.Btl. at Istres and III.Btl. at Nimes, all in a total strength of 48 officers and 3,300 other ranks. Following the Allied invasion of South France on 15 Aug 44, the Regiment got caught up in the general panic and rapid fighting withdrawal up the Rhone Valley to Dijon, Luxeuil and then Belfort, variously attached to 11.Pz.Div. and 198.Inf.Div. In two weeks, the Regiment lost 1,079 men and it was disbanded as soon as it reached German soil in September. During the entire period in France, Flieger-Rgt.63 was commanded by Oberst Dr. Rudolf Otto, who was wounded on 30 Aug 44 and taken prisoner by U.S. forces.
Regards,
(Larry)
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Old 09-03-2001, 08:31 PM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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From TOCH!:

Hans
Fliegerregiment 63
Sat Aug 4 07:08:01 2001


Larry

You just told me something I never knew. As a member of this unit, we were inducted into the 1/1 Flieger Regiment 63 in Tarnowitz, Ost Oberschlesien in October of 1942, In November we were transferred to Toul where we got our basic training and were than tested and send to our differend training centers.
It now gives me a picture of what the reason was that they told us we would go as an ground fighting unit, to which we started an muteny. I am sure that the largest part of our company still ended up in the guarding duties. Not every one passed the grade to go to specialized training
Never was really interested in knowing about Fl. rgt 63 since we were drilled very hard and tough. Tougher than the other companies. We were gladly leaving Toul.

Thanks

Regards

Hans
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Old 09-03-2001, 08:32 PM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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From TOCH!:

Larry
Re: Fliegerregiment 63
Sat Aug 4 12:17:34 2001


Hans -

Interesting comments. You are absolutely correct about the plans to transform the Regiment into a ground combat unit. Most of the other Flieger-Regimenter were used for this purpose, becoming Luftwaffen-Jägerregimenter der Luftwaffen-Felddivisionen. Fortunately for Flieger-Rgt.63 and a few of the others, they were reprieved and remained in France (plus one or two in Belgium and Holland) for guard duties. But here's one question I don't know the answer to: although used for guard duties in France, did they also continue to give basic training to new Luftwaffe recruits from Germany right through to the summer of 1944?
Regards,
(Larry)
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Old 09-03-2001, 08:33 PM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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Hans
Flg.Rmt. 63
Sun Aug 5 04:26:49 2001


Larry

We did not have to much contact to any of the other companies, but ours was a special on. First if all, we were larger than any other company. Ours counted 180 men. The only thrue Germans in our company, was the commander and the Ausbilder.
We were all somehow of German descent. There were young man who were German born but emigrees and just visiting when the war broke out and they could not return to their families. They were from the U.S. Canada. Brasil.Argetina
Australia and other countries. Than there were Germans who had lived in now occupied countries. Others were people from old German settlements in eastern countries called Volks Deutsche. There we had some France and Italians. People of some kind of German herritage. Under them I was called in to service.
Actually I got a call to muster in in a Wehrertuechtigungs lager der Hitler Jugend of which I knew that on the end of this "Course" you got to sign a form informing you that you just volunteered for the Waffen SS.
And many did what I did and sign up for the Luftwaffe before the HJ or the SS could get a hold of me.
In a way I was glad it happened, because I was hiding from the German Police. I had left a job in Germany and did not return. I could not go underground because no one in Holland would help a "Rot Mof"
Since I was then and am now still a Pacifist, I did every thing not to perform as a soldier. And in that I was very succesful.
When we found out the plot to send us to god knows somewhere we started the muteny. We almost expected to be locked up or even get shot for it. Our Barracks were enclosed in barbed wire and we could not leave the buildings.
To our surprise a rep from the RLM came over and we negociated the fact that we had volunteered for differend parts of the service. Otherwise we could have joined the SS.
They honored our grievances and the barbed wire was removed. We were sworn in with a special for us created oath.
I do not know if any of this ever was noted in the history of Flg.Rgm.63

Hope to give you some more insight of the old 63.

Vriendly regards

Hans
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  #6  
Old 09-03-2001, 08:34 PM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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From TOCH!:

Jaap Woortman
Rot Mof or F.... Kraut. or Jerry.
Sun Aug 5 10:06:58 2001


The translation for "Rot Mof" nowadays would be, I think "F..... Kraut". Do you agree Hans?

First Larry thanks for your answer. It gives a good idea about the history of Flieger Regiment 63. By the way is it coming from the BA files in Freiburg? We, Hans and me, are looking for information about the group of people who have entered the Flieger Regiment 63 in Oktober 1943. I would like to know if in the BA/MA in Freiburg information about this unit is available. It would then be worthwhile to pay a visit to the archive again. My next now is sending a letter/e-mail to Freiburg to do some inquiry.

Jaap
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  #7  
Old 09-03-2001, 08:35 PM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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From TOCH!:

Larry
Re: Rot Mof or F.... Kraut. or Jerry.
Sun Aug 5 13:47:10 2001


Jaap and Hans -

The "shell" of my little thumbnail history comes from Georg Tessin's "Verbände und Truppen der deutschen Wehrmacht und Waffen-SS im Zweiten Weltkrieg". The specifics and details come from widely scattered and highly fragmented bits and pieces found in the microfilmed German records held by the U.S. National Archives (Record Group 242), and here are the citations:
Microcopy T-311 roll 71;
Microcopy T-321 rolls 1, 30 and 64;
Microcopy T-405 roll 44
Microcopy T-971 (roll number not recorded).
Of these, the best, and the only one with any "meat" to it, is a lengthy study of all of the Flieger-Regimenter that had been based in France that was written around October-November 1944 after the disasterous retreat from France. This 60-page or so study was written by the Luftwaffe historians in the 8.Abteilung/OKL - the so-called von Rohden group. The study is in T-971 (the von Rohden Collection) and the original is at BA-MA.

I would thing that all you would need to do is to describe the study to a BA-MA archivist and tell them that it can be found in the 8.Abt./OKL von Rohden material. But don't expect to find much in the study about people, training and other matters. It's mostly about the retreat from France. I know of no records that survived the war that will give you the very specific detail concerning the life and times of Flieger-Rgt.63 in France. In fact, I doubt if any of the Regiment's own records survived the war at all. Records at the regimental-level were either all destroyed when the U.S. 8th AAF demolished the Potsdam Archive in August 1944, or in the mass destruction of Luftwaffe records ordered by Göring during the first week of May 1945. All that remains are a few bits and pieces.
Regards,
(Larry)
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  #8  
Old 09-03-2001, 08:36 PM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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From TOCH!:

Hans
Thanks Larry
Sun Aug 5 18:08:02 2001


Larry

You have given a picture of my basic outfit that I never knew. Like I said before, we were very glad and happy to leave this hellhole. Can you immagen the confusion you het when 180 people from all over the world have to follow commands and orders?
One Italian member new only on centence: "No capito", which brought the whole company in trouble, over and over again.

The throuble was Five km Runs with full backpack, probably even with gas-mask. Counting the push ups would go in the tausands. Then during the selection, it came out that he, the italianm, was going to be an interprator and he spoke better German than even the Ausbilder.
The day after, he was put in to the dispensery to recoupe of what we called, "the holy Goast"
And this is just one example. The Danish group did not like the Dutch to well so there to was friction. Most of us did not like the France delegation and the Americans
and Canadians were holding together. Sure not a close knitt group who had to depend on each other in case of an emergency

En Jaap, yes you are right, Good translation.

Regards again

Hans
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  #9  
Old 10-17-2008, 08:12 AM
Kolja Mensing Kolja Mensing is offline
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Default late, but...

Hi,

I know that I am quite late here, but... I do research on my Polish grandfather, who joined Flieger Regiment 63 probably in May 1943 in France. Unfortunately I never met my grandfather and there is not much information on his military service during WW II. I would really like to get in contact with Jaap, Larry or Hans to find out more details about the regiment.

I would really appreciate a short message.

Thanks a lot,

Kolja
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