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  #1  
Old 04-11-2004, 06:36 PM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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Default Museums with Luftwaffe aircraft - 3

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Kuba Plewka
Bf 109 G10 Wreck from "Skrzydlata Polska" and it's engine
Tue Mar 30, 2004 06:05
217.11.141.202

Hi All!

Some weeks ago in one of polish aviation magazines "Skrzydlata Polska" appeared an article about recovered Gustav wreck (found in Silesia area in Poland). The article was mainly about it's camo but one detail has caught my eye.
Author gives the Werk Nummer of that Gustav - 612723. One photo shows the oil tank cowl (the top part of it) and the lower-placed filler's cover is clearly visible.
I wonder If the DB 605D engines could be mounted with this A-like oil tank? I looked at other photos of G10/K4 and the filler covers were higher on all I have checked.
Is it possible that G10 was fitted with AS engine (but it's WNr is 11900069 or 59)? Or maybe it wasn't a G10 than a G14/AS - but what about it's WNr?

I have compared this with an article about Croatian Bf 109 G from Falconara which appeared last year in polish modeller's magazine.
It's author proves it to be G14/AS sub-type identyfing the oil tank filler cover (lower) and the cover of cold start instalation - lower than the starter whole.

Could you please explain this puzzle to me?
Thank You very much!

best regards
Kuba Plewka
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  #2  
Old 04-11-2004, 06:39 PM
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From further within the thread on TOCH!:

John Beaman
Re: Bf 109 G10 Wreck from "Skrzydlata Polska" and it's engi
Wed Mar 31, 2004 19:58
24.167.160.224

Hi Kuba:

Nikko Fast lists this aircraft as a G-10 from 1./JG 52 lost in a Luftkampf on 7-March-1945.

If photos of the details you mention are available, I would love to see them.

John Beaman
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  #3  
Old 04-11-2004, 06:40 PM
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From TOCH!:

Bernd Barbas
Bf 109 G-10 found in Silesia
Thu Apr 1, 2004 18:53
194.45.48.51

Hello John and Kuba ,

the ac is from Staff / I JG 52 , action and pilot known .
But some " secret service agents " asked me not to give any details to others .
Unfortunately very usual at " this business " .

Bernd Barbas
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  #4  
Old 04-27-2004, 11:51 AM
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From 12 O'Clock High!:

Voldemar
He-111 Wnr.8304
Sat Apr 17, 2004 12:54
194.44.246.250

Hello!
Some wrecks of He-111, with plate (8304) were founded in the region Western Ukraine-South-East Poland.
Who help me with indenfication of this wrecks (I think it may be He-111 H-16).
I search info about this plane and crew.
With the best wishes.
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  #5  
Old 04-27-2004, 11:52 AM
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From TOCH!:

Jim P.
I have 8302 & 8305 - no 8304. 1944 loss?
Sun Apr 18, 2004 22:30
67.242.219.185

They are H-16s BTW.
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  #6  
Old 04-27-2004, 11:52 AM
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From TOCH!:

Voldemar
Yes, I think...
Mon Apr 19, 2004 08:48
194.44.246.250

This He-111 H-16 crashed during flying from Ukraine (Stanislaw) to Ungarn... in 1943 or 44. Few years ago, I asked you about it... Now, the plate with Wnr.8304 was founded in the crash place. I don't know, what happenned with crew...
With the best wishes...
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  #7  
Old 05-17-2004, 04:57 PM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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The AXLs Plane Gallery website, by Alex Postma, contains a very large collection of Axis aircraft photos, some vintage and some of preserved aircraft. The site address is:

http://www.studenten.net/customasp/axl/index.asp

The section of interest is:

WWII Axis - photos

Bf 108 - 12 color, 4 b&w

- Includes A/C at Kalamazoo Air Zoo, Kalamazoo, MI, U.S.A.; Musee Royal de l'Armee, Brussels, Belgium; Ex N108H, OO-NET, New Zealand; Germany; Deutsche Lufthansa Berlin Stiftung, Germany; Imperial War Museum, London, England

Bf 109 - 26 color, 8 b&w

- Includes A/C at RAFM Hendon, England; German Air Force Museum, Germany; Finnish AF Museum, Tikkakoski, Finland; USAFM, Dayton, OH, U.S.A.; IWM, Duxford, England; NASM, Washington D.C., U.S.A.; Planes of Fame, California, U.S.A.; Fundacja Polskie Orly, wnr 163306, Poland; Bf 109G-10 W.Nr. 151591, EADS, Messerschmitt Foundation, Germany

Bf 110 - 8 color, 11 b&w

Me 163 - 10 color, 15 b&w

- Includes A/C at RAFM Cosford, England; Luftwaffe Museum, Gatow, Germany; IWM, Duxford, England.

Me 262 - 12 color, 22 b&w

- Includes A/C at Deutches Museum, Munich, Germany; NASM, Washington D.C.; U.S.A.; Vojenske Muzeum, Kbely AB, Czech Republic; South African National Museum of Military History; South Africa.

Me 323 - 6 color, 14 b&w

Me 410 - 7 color, 6 b&w

- Includes A/C at RAFM Cosford, England

Messerschmitt P.1101 - 7 b&w

Ta 152 - 8 b&w

Ta 154 - 6 b&w

Fw 187 - 1 color, 8 b&w

Fw 189 - 3 color, 27 b&w

Fw 190 - 12 color, 29 b&w

- Includes A/C at USAFM, Dayton, OH, U.S.A.; RAFM Hendon, England

Fw 200 - 3 color, 19 b&w

Ju 52 - 2 color, 8 b&w

Ju 87 - 8 color, 29 b&w

- Includes A/C at RAFM Hendon, England

Ju 88 - 4 color, 8 b&w

-Includes A/C at RAFM Hendon, England

Ju 287 - 9 b&w

Ju 290 - 9 b&w

Ju 388 - 2 color, 11 b&w

Ju 390 - 4 b&w

Do 17 - 2 color, 11 b&w

Do 18 - 1 color, 8 b&w

Do 24 - 2 color, 11 b&w

- Includes A/C at Militaire Luchvaart Museum, Kamp Van Zeist, Netherlands

Do 26 - 2 color, 7 b&w

Do 215 - 7 b&w

Do 217 - 1 color, 17 b&w

Do 335 - 3 color, 13 b&w

- Includes A/C at NASM Garber, Silver Hill, MD, U.S.A.

Do J Wal - 1 color, 8 b&w

- Includes A/C at Technical Museum, Lujan, Argentina

He 59 - 1 color, 11 b&w

He 100 - 1 color, 4 b&w

He 111 - 8 color, 30 b&w

- Includes A/C at RAFM Hendon, England; Confederate Air Force, Midland TX, U.S.A. (crashed and destroyedon 10 July 2003); Norwegian Aviation Museum, Norway

He 111Z - 9 b&w

He 112 - 1 color, 11 b&w

He 114 - 6 b&w

He 115 - 4 color, 9 b&w

He 177 - 2 color, 11 b&w (possibly 1 of these is in color)

He 162 - 4 color, 11 b&w

- Includes A/C at Planes of Fame California, U.S.A.; IWM, London, England; Le Bourget Paris, France; RAFM Hendon, England

He 219 - 2 color, 6 b&w

He 280 - 8 b&w

Hs 123 - 1 color, 10 b&w

Hs 129 - 1 color, 8 b&w

Bv 138 - 2 color, 16 b&w

Bv 141 - 11 b&w

Bv 222 - 17 b&w

Bv 238 - 6 b&w

Fi 103 - 1 color

- Missile at Historisch-Technisches Informationszentrum, Peenemünde, Germany (replica containing original parts)

Fi 104R - 6 b&w

Fi 156 - 27 color, 11 b&w

- Includes A/C at CAF Texas, U.S.A.; USAFM, Dayton, OH, U.S.A.; Swiss Air Force Museum, Switzerland; Luftwaffe Museum, Gatow, Berlin, Germany; Fi 156 W.Nr. 475309, Kermit Weeks, Florida, U.S.A.; Flygvapenmuseum, Linköping, Sweden.

Ar 196 - 5 color, 11 b&w

- Includes A/C at NASM Garber, Silver Hill, MD, U.S.A.

Ar 232 - 9 b&w

Ar 234 - 4 color, 11 b&w

- Includes one A/C variously at NASM, Garber, Silver Hill, MD, U.S.A.; NASM, Washington, D.C., U.S.A.; NASM, Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center, Washington Dulles International Airport, Chantilly, VA, U.S.A. (current A/C location).

Ar 240 - 8 b&w

Ba 349 - 5 color, 12 b&w

- Includes A/C at NASM, Garber, Silver Hill, MD, U.S.A.

Caproni Campini CC.1 - 7 color, 4 b&w

- Includes A/C at the Italian Air Force Museum, Vigna di Valle, Rome, Italy

HA-1112-M1L (Spanish-built Bf 109) - 15 color

- Includes A/C at Planes of Fame, Chino, CA, U.S.A.; Fighter Factory, Suffolk, VA, U.S.A.; National Aviation Air Museum, ONT, Canada, on loan to Western Canada Aviation Museum, Canada; OFMC, Duxford, England, crashed on 25 Sept. 1999 in Spain; Kalamazoo Aviation History Museum, Kalamazoo, MI, U.S.A.

Mitsubishi J8M1 Shusui - 5 color, 4 b&w

- Includes A/C at Planes of Fame, Chino, CA, U.S.A.; Mitsubishi Heavy Industry, Nagoya, Japan

Nakajima Kikka - 9 b&w

Yokosuka MXY-7 Ohka - Baka - 6 color, 12 b&w

- Includes A/C at RAFM Cosford, England


My thanks go to Mikael Olrog who helped with identifying the locations of the preserved Axis aircraft.

Regards,
Richard
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  #8  
Old 06-20-2004, 12:23 PM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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From 12 O'Clock High!:

Rune Rautio
Some Bf 109 serials
Thu Jun 10, 2004 21:31
80.212.161.131

I have recorded three Bf 109s lost in Northest-Russia i 1944, which are not with any avialable RLM lists or NVMs.

Bf 109G-2 WNr 14930, lost in Karelia.
Bf 109G-6 WNr 163306 "Rot 3", lost in Karelia. Possibly 5./JG 5.
Bf 109G-6 WNr 166083, lost on Kola peninsula. Possibly IV./JG 5.

Anybody who know more about unit(s) and arrival to the north?

In addition, I am also looking for information about one bird lost in Norway 1944-45:

Bf 109G-6 WNr 20259. Probably IV./JG 5, as the same bird was slightly damaged 04.10.43 with this Gruppe.

Rune
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  #9  
Old 06-20-2004, 12:24 PM
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From TOCH!:

Anders Berg
Bf109G-6 w.nr 163306
Fri Jun 11, 2004 10:43
161.85.127.140

Hi,
I got that one listed as lost 28.5.1944 at Trzbun See, Danzig. Pilot Fw. Ernst Pleines of Erg.Jgr.West was killed in the crash.
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  #10  
Old 06-20-2004, 12:25 PM
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From TOCH!:

Lynn
163306 is currently restored and on display...
Fri Jun 11, 2004 21:38
216.49.69.242

somewhere in Poland. It was in amazing condition when recovered, but there was no sign of the unfortunate Feldwebel Pleines.

Lynn

(For more discussion about this aircraft and its pilot, the reader is referred to the topic "Bf 109 Werknummern - 8" on the "Aircraft Designation Systems" forum.

Regards,
Richard)
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  #11  
Old 07-22-2004, 01:48 PM
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From within a thread on 12 O'Clock High!:

Franek Grabowski
Bf 109 E-1 W.Nr.
Fri Jul 16, 2004 15:18
213.25.54.73

Larry
I am afraid it is not that easy as some people want to see it. Aircraft were usually finished in blocks of dozen or few dozens and only then accepted by a military. The question is when military serial (WNr) was applied (they are not neccesarily, well, usually not in sequence with c/n) and when Stkz was applied. I suppose the latter was painted just after or before acceptance flight, hence if aircraft was rejected or destroyed, it was replaced by another one, obviously with a c/n and/or s/n not in sequence. A good sample may be Me 109 recovered in Poland which had its codes out of sequence.
Franek
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  #12  
Old 07-22-2004, 01:49 PM
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From TOCH!:

Larry Hickey
SKZ on aircraft
Fri Jul 16, 2004 17:17
67.173.250.240

Franek,

Thanks for info. Was the one found in Poland from the original Polish Campaign or something from later in the war? If the former, can you tell me about it?

I thought that the SKZ were put on in the factory on the assembly line, sometime late in the final assembly process. Is that incorrect?

Thanks,

Larry
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  #13  
Old 07-22-2004, 01:50 PM
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From TOCH!:

Franek Grabowski
SKZ on aircraft
Fri Jul 16, 2004 19:35
213.25.54.73

Larry
Mentioned Me 109 is a G-6 found in Gebbert/Trzebun lake a few years ago. There were no significant finds from 1939 - Germans and Poles had enough time to remove wrecks and there are really few remote areas here.
Regarding Skz, I do not recall any photo with them but on flightline. This was a temporary marking applied after completion of paint finish. Unless a direct Skz-Wnr link evidence exists, I would resist from any assumptions. It is too risky and not neccesary.
Franek
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  #14  
Old 09-06-2004, 12:54 PM
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From 12 O'Clock High!:

Marcus Wendel
marcus@skalman.nu
Museums
Sat Aug 28, 2004 10:40
195.216.45.37

I'm compiling information on museums with Axis WW2 equipment on my site, the Axis History Factbook at http://www.axishistory.com , and I'd appreciate any help with additions (text or photos) or corrections to the material.

The museums section can be found at http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=56

Thanks.

/Marcus
marcus@skalman.nu
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  #15  
Old 09-07-2004, 11:11 AM
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From 12 O'Clock High!:

Franek Grabowski
Albatros, the last one I think.
Tue Aug 31, 2004 14:32
213.25.54.73

Hello
This is a question in regard of my friend.
Does anyone have any records or any other knowledge concerning service of the last Albatros L.30 (post-war B.IIa) in the Luftwaffe? She was coded NG+UR and phased out in 1940 I think. Would be lovely to get her service record!
Thanks
Franek
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  #16  
Old 09-07-2004, 11:12 AM
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From TOCH!:

Tony Jones
Re: Albatros, the last one I think.
Tue Aug 31, 2004 21:14
195.92.67.209

Franek

This aircraft is c/n 10019 ex D-690 and D-EKDU. It was in service with the NSFK in 1938/9. It was damaged on the bombing raid on the Berlin Museum and moved to Krakow, Poland and is at the Museum there now

Tony
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  #17  
Old 09-07-2004, 11:13 AM
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From TOCH!:

Franek Grabowski
Re: Albatros, the last one I think.
Wed Sep 1, 2004 15:13
213.25.54.73

Tony
Thanks but I know it. Apparently it served with 23 Staffel NFSK. The last registration was NG+UR however and I am not sure id it is simple re-registration or was the aircraft taken over by the Luftwaffe in 1939.
Franek
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  #18  
Old 11-18-2004, 12:15 PM
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From 12 O'Clock High!:

Milan Bencek Jr.
milanbencek@yahoo.com
Identification recovered Fw 190 with pilot, W.Nr.539347
Fri Oct 22, 2004 13:50
213.81.178.11

Hi all

Can anyone help me with identification {pilot, unit, imatriculation, date of crash....} Fw 190 recovered from Slovakian woods tree weeks ago???

Contact me off board please.

Thanks, Milan
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  #19  
Old 11-18-2004, 12:16 PM
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From TOCH!:

Jim P.
The Wnr. is probably wrong. More likely....
Fri Oct 22, 2004 22:56
67.242.219.233

is either 530347 or 739347 (a JG 54 loss 16km south of Bonn in late 44).
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  #20  
Old 11-18-2004, 12:17 PM
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From TOCH!:

Rabe Anton
Identification of Recovered Fw 190 with Pilot, WNr. 539347
Mon Oct 25, 2004 16:41
132.60.240.80

Jim,

If we can be sure the unit of loss was JG 54, then it has to be IV./JG 54. If it's IV./JG 54, it's virtually certain that the airplane was an A-8 or A-9, eliminating 530 347 and
throwing the weight towards 739 347.

RA
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