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  #1  
Old 07-22-2004, 01:03 PM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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Default Bf 109 Werknummern - 9

From within a thread on 12 O'Clock High!:

Larry Hickey
Bf 109 E-1 W.Nr.
Thu Jul 15, 2004 20:17
67.173.250.240

Prien, in his Vol on II/JG 27 (P.5), has a photo of CT+AH taken at the time that II./JG 27 initially equipped with the 109 in early January, 1940. I'm not sure how the Stammkennzeichen codes work, but I suspect that "AM" was manufactured on the line at Fieseler five planes after "AH." If not, someone please tell me how these codes work. Since this "AM" was presumeably delivered shortly after "AH" it is highly likely that the photos on E-Bay were taken sometime in mid-January, 1940, rather than during the Battle of France, as was speculated in an earlier post in this thread. Prien ID's the code CT+AH as coming from the E-1 W.Nr. block of 6151 to 6177, manufactured by Fieseler-Werke. Someone may be able to tell from this exactly what the W.Nr. of CT+AM was.

Larry Hickey
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  #2  
Old 07-22-2004, 01:04 PM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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From TOCH!:

Jaap Woortman
Stkz versus W.Nr.
Thu Jul 15, 2004 20:51
212.142.15.103

The block goes from 6151 TO 6177. In my opinion this means that 6177 is not included. If Bf 109E1 CT+AA has had W.Nr.6151 then CT+AZ has had W.Nr.6176. This means that CT+AM must have had W.Nr.6163.

Jaap
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  #3  
Old 07-22-2004, 01:06 PM
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From TOCH!:

Rabe Anton
Bf 109E-1 C T + A M Redux
Thu Jul 15, 2004 21:36
132.60.240.80

Thank you, Jaap, for contributing on the SKZ-Werknummer arrangement. You are entirely correct about the correlation between codes and Werknummern, at least for those machines manufacturered after about November 1939.

RA
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  #4  
Old 08-14-2004, 12:05 PM
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From 12 O'Clock High!:

Mark Sheppard
Bf109 E GD+GL
Wed Aug 4, 2004 22:12
195.92.168.164

Hi all

In Ed's current listing for ebay there is a Bf 109 E with the Stkz of GD+GL.

Can any help confirm GD+GL is from the group 0809 - 0877 E-3's built by Erla?

regards

MS
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  #5  
Old 08-14-2004, 12:06 PM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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From TOCH!:

steve sheridan
Bf 109E GD+GL
Thu Aug 5, 2004 21:46
80.41.67.103

Hiya Mark,
I have seen your other message regarding the possible identity of this a/c. I have had a scan through my stkz lists, but unfortunately i dont have any GD+** coded Emils whatsoever.
Like yourself, i have the Erla batch of Bf109E-3's W.nr's
0809-0877, listed, but i haven't come across any stkz for this batch as of yet, i would be very grateful if you could possibly send me a scan of the a/c you mention, this being GD+ D? I would really like to see this, if you could.

If you could help in any way, or if you have any further info of stkz from this batch above, id be very grateful.

rgs,
Steve.
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  #6  
Old 08-27-2004, 12:28 PM
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From 12 O'Clock High!:

Dave
109E-7 wk.nr.4093
Fri Aug 20, 2004 01:34
210.55.43.183

Hi all

Can anyone tell me where this aircraft would have been built ?

TIA
regards
Dave
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  #7  
Old 08-27-2004, 12:29 PM
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From TOCH!:

steve sheridan
Bf109E W.nr 4093
Fri Aug 20, 2004 13:25
80.41.53.231

Hi Dave,
This a/c was produced by Erla Machinewerke at Leipzig.
This machine was built within a batch of 193 Emils wth W.nr 4091-4222 containing the variants Bf109E-4, Bf109E-4/B
and no less than 106 Bf109E-7's it could also have been coded GH+DP, prior to allocation of its operational unit.

Hope this helps, again if anybody knows different id welcome any further information!
Rgds
Steve.
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  #8  
Old 08-27-2004, 12:29 PM
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From TOCH!:

Dave
Thanx Steve ! (nm)
Fri Aug 20, 2004 13:28
210.55.43.55
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  #9  
Old 08-27-2004, 12:30 PM
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From TOCH!:

mark sheppard
4093
Fri Aug 20, 2004 21:25
62.253.96.40

Steve/Dave

We have a bit for Finland, confirmed via a good friend Kari Lumppio.(Movements only within Finland).

4th April 1942 GH+DP flew from Revel to Pori.

15th April 1942 GH+DP flew from Pori to '391'.
Not sure fo these location. Sure I have it in my files somewhere, but probably one fo the Luftwaffe bases in Northern Finland.

100% sure 4093 was GH+DP

Interesting about the previous history as well.

regards

Mark
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  #10  
Old 08-27-2004, 12:31 PM
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From TOCH!:

steve sheridan
Many thx for that news Mark, most interesting! (nm)
Sat Aug 21, 2004 01:27
80.41.57.250
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  #11  
Old 08-27-2004, 12:31 PM
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From TOCH!:

mark sheppard
Assume you have this info!
Fri Aug 20, 2004 14:30
62.241.189.195

Dave

Still offline and homeless. Hopefully get the new computer back up tonight after three weeks!

asusme you have this.

25.05.1942
5./JG 5 Bay of Kola Missing Bf 109 E-7 4093 Yellow 5 100%
Lt. Friedrich Dahn (F) MIA

Might be able to find more on the Skz as well. (movements).

email you when up and running.

regards

Mark
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  #12  
Old 08-27-2004, 12:32 PM
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From TOCH!:

steve sheridan
W.nr 4093 Mark Sheppard!
Fri Aug 20, 2004 16:53
80.41.53.231

Hi Mark,and Dave.
following on from the previous threads on this bird, i notice from my records that this a/c had served with II/JG3 with slight damage {5%} on 8.2.41, i also have details of another accident on 15.4.41, this time W.nr 4093 is recorded as serving now with 9/JG54 and suffering 20% damage, whilst being flown by Uffz.Alfred Kromer.
There is photo of this a/c after its crash landing at Pancevo ,illustrated in vol 5 of Prien and Stemmers Jagdfliegerverbande Der Deutschen Luftwaffe page254.

Btw Mark, i too would be interested in Stkz movements, or indeed confirmation of this a/c's Stkz.
Rgs,
Steve.
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  #13  
Old 08-27-2004, 12:33 PM
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From TOCH!:

Dave
Yes..
Fri Aug 20, 2004 23:41
210.55.161.161

Mark

I have that thanks. Look forward to chatting again when you are sorted out !

Dave
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  #14  
Old 12-20-2004, 09:09 PM
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From 12 O'Clock High!:

Gary Koch
Bf109G Werknummers
Wed Dec 8, 2004 04:12
172.199.125.110


In researching a 25 Aug 44 dogfight, I came across a list of Luftwaffe losses for III./JG76. The unit was short-lived and flew Bf109Gs. In this particular dogfight, all 12 losses are shown as Bf109G-14 models, but the werknummers don't seem to match. I know that werknummers beginning with "78XXXX" were Bf109G-14/AS models. On the loss list, the following werknummers were shown as Bf109G-14s:

163485
413622
413649
413676
413679
413738
441801

I believe that most of these are actually Bf109G-6s. Can anyone identify the correct models of these werknummers? Is there a complete list of Bf109G werknummers anywhere on the web?

Thanks in advance, Gary
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  #15  
Old 12-20-2004, 09:10 PM
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From TOCH!:

Andreas Brekken
andrebre@online.no
Bf 109 G WNr
Wed Dec 8, 2004 10:37
83.109.116.27


Hi.

If 163485 is correct (not listed in Peter Schmoll's book) it would be a G-6, possibly with an AS eingine. I suspect it is really 163435, a G-6/AS built at Regensburg in July 1944.

The 413xxx series are G-6 built at Erla. All the below listed WNr's fit neatly in the 413400 - 413900 range listed by Prien and Rodeike.

The 441801 would be a WNF built G-6 also.

So to the explanation to the fact that all these are listed as G-14's:

The Sollbestand of the unit at the time was probably G-14's. Thus it was supposed to be equipped with this subtype. If the clerks making up the loss lists were less technical than a TO usually was, they would report the WNr's and the aircraft type that the unit was supposed to have.

This is seen very frequent in the loss listings from the RLM also, and in my opinion is one of the bases for the 'mixed batches of subtypes' statements frequently seen in both published books and elsewhere. (The production block xxxxxx consisted of Bf 109G-6 and G-14).

Regards,
Andreas Brekken
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