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  #1  
Old 07-31-2004, 12:29 PM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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Default Luftwaffe units operating against Yugoslav Partisans

From 12 O'Clock High!:

M. Reising
Luftwaffe units operating against Yugoslav Partisans
Mon Jul 19, 2004 05:50
4.137.11.205

During the many campaigns against Tito's Partisans, 1941-44, any Ju 88 Bomber or Reconnaissance units involved?

Did see one or sources with 1. (F) Aufklarungsgruppe 122
in Croatia during part of 1943.

Best,

m. reising
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  #2  
Old 07-31-2004, 12:31 PM
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From TOCH!:

LwFlieger
Re: Luftwaffe units operating against Yugoslav Partisans
Mon Jul 19, 2004 15:35
64.12.116.81

Yes there was! There was (at least) the"Einsatz-Kampfgruppe Ju 88/Chef Ausbildungswesens" which took part in Operation Schwarz, a joint German-Italian-Croatian anti-partisan offensive south of Sarajevo and Montenegro and used Ju88's (18? May – 15 June1943). If it's that important I could scrounge for more.
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Old 07-31-2004, 12:31 PM
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From TOCH!:

M. Reising
Ju 88 Units over Yugoslavia
Tue Jul 20, 2004 05:41
4.137.11.32

Hello LwFlieger, and thanks for the info...

Any more information on this particular Ju 88 "Einsatz Kampfgruppe"?

Was unaware of it's existence unit now...

Best,

m. reising
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  #4  
Old 07-31-2004, 12:49 PM
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From TOCH!:

David Pausey
Einsatzkampf Gruppe Ju88/Gen.d.Fl.Ausb.
Tue Jul 20, 2004 17:39
195.92.67.71

Hello

Einsatzkampf Gruppe Ju88/Gen.d.Fl.Ausb. lost at lest five Ju88's on ops in the Balkans. But I do not know anthing more about this unit.

David
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  #5  
Old 07-31-2004, 12:49 PM
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From TOCH!:

M. Reising
Ju 88 Units over Yugoslavia
Wed Jul 21, 2004 00:55
4.137.8.81

David,

Many thanks!

Best,

m. reising
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  #6  
Old 07-31-2004, 12:50 PM
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From TOCH!:

Steve W.
Re: Ju 88 Units over Yugoslavia
Tue Jul 20, 2004 19:24
152.163.253.34

Very briefly,
Formed April-May 1943 in Germany (where is unknown, but possibly in the Cottbus area) as a provisional unit (“an der Kommandoweg aufgestellt”) with Gruppenstab and 1. – 3.Staffel using assets taken from the bomber training schools and initially named Einsatz-Kampfgruppe Ju 88/General d. Fliegerausbildungs. Operated over Yugoslavia from c. 18 May to 11 Jul 43, mainly from Belgrade-Zemun, Sarajevo-Butmir and Mostar-South. It provided bomber support for Unternehmen "Schwarz". Went to Greece after that. All Ju 88A-4 losses over Yugoslavia were to crashes and accidents. None to hostile fire.

HTH,

Steve W.
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  #7  
Old 07-31-2004, 12:51 PM
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From TOCH!:

M. Reising
Einsatz-Kampfgruppe
Wed Jul 21, 2004 00:53
4.137.8.81

Steve W.

Once again you are a great source of info!

Any names, Gruppenkommandeur, Staffelkapitan?

Many thanks in advance...

m. reising
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  #8  
Old 07-31-2004, 12:51 PM
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From TOCH!:

Steve W.
Re: Einsatz-Kampfgruppe
Wed Jul 21, 2004 15:22
205.188.116.83

Kommandeur:
Hptm. Karl-August von der Fecht (DKG, RK) (May 43? - Nov 43)

Two of the Staffelkapitäne were:
3 Jul 43: 2 Ju 88A-4s collided while taking off from Sarajevo-Butmir, 100% and 80%, Staffelkapitän Maj. Helmut Wendel + 1 KIA and 2 WIA.
9 Oct 43: Ju 88A-4 (K5+JL) FTR from a flight over the Adriatic, Staffelkapitän Hptm. Helmut Schüler + 3 MIA; another Ju 88A-4 crashed into the sea south of Kos in the Dodecanese Islands/Aegean – engine failure.

There was also the following officer, but I doubt that he was a Staffelkapitan:
10 Oct 43: Ju 88A-4 crashed and burned at Athens-Tatoi, 100%, Oblt. Georg Denkmann + 2 KIA and 1 WIA.

HTH,

Steve W.
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  #9  
Old 07-31-2004, 12:52 PM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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From TOCH!:

David Pausey
Einsatz-Kampfgruppe crew details for 30-10-43
Wed Jul 21, 2004 17:25
195.92.67.69

Hi Steve

Einsatzkampf Gruppe Ju88/Gen.d.Fl.Ausb. lost the following on the 30-10-43:-
Ju88A-4 W.Nr 0231 K5+AB.W of Castettrsso.
Ju88A-4 W.Nr 3932 K5+BL.W of Castettrsso.
both shot down by "Jäger" have you any info on the crews, were they rescued ?

As for the "Jäger" I have 5 -1- 0 Ju-88s claimed by 227 Sqn (Beaufighter VIf) on this date. The first at 1122 at 36-03N, 29-12E, shared by Mazur/Stainton + Kendall/Mackay.
The rest are all at 1800, approx 36-05N, 29-30E, convoy Nettle; 3 by Beare/Humphries, one by Yurchison(RCAF)/Wroath; and the prob by Kemp(RNZAF)/Wyles. The latter claim might have been considered to be a squadron claim. The USAAF made no claims on this day so I think
Einsatzkampf Gruppe Ju88/Gen.d.Fl.Ausb. was the unit the Beau's engaged (poss 1(F)/33 as well)
Do you know if there were any other Ju88s lost this day?

Regards

David
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  #10  
Old 07-31-2004, 12:55 PM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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From TOCH!:

Steve W.
Re: Einsatz-Kampfgruppe crew details for 30-10-43
Wed Jul 21, 2004 18:48
205.188.116.83

David -

All I have is:

30 Oct 43: 2 Ju 88A-4s (K5+AB,BL) shot down by fighters west of Kastellorizon Is./4 km off the SE coast of Turkey in the Aegean, 8 MIA.

Many years ago, while taking my notes from the Gen.Qu.(6.Abt.) Verlustmeldungen for all units of the Luftwaffe, I only made note of aircrew personnel in the rank of Oberleutnant and above. So the personnel from the two Ju 88s noted above must have all been below that rank. Perhaps "Jim P." or one of the others with more extensive notes can fill in the blanks for you.

Cheers,

Steve W.
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  #11  
Old 07-31-2004, 12:55 PM
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From TOCH!:

David Pausey
Many thanks Steve, it all helps. (nm)
Wed Jul 21, 2004 21:18
195.92.67.69
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  #12  
Old 07-31-2004, 12:56 PM
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From TOCH!:

M. Reising
Einsatz-Kampfgruppe
Thu Jul 22, 2004 04:52
4.137.8.227

Steve W.,

Again, many thanks!...

Karl-August von der Fecht was the Kommandeur?...

This is interesting, for now I have a new question: When this Einsatz-Kampfgruppe departed Yugoslavia for Greece, did it become part of Kampfgeschwader 100?

Under Michael Holm's website "The Luftwaffe, 1933-1945", www.ww2.dk, KG 100 had an "Einsatz Staffel" during 1943, which supposedly was an Illumination Staffel for LG 1 in the eastern Mediterranean.

One of the Kapitan was von der Fecht. The unit was origionally equipped with He 111's, but then had Ju 88A-4s from late Summer forward. Disbanded in mid November 1943...

Same officer, the same unit of Ju 88's?...

Best,

m. reising
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  #13  
Old 07-31-2004, 12:57 PM
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From TOCH!:

LwFlieger
Re: Einsatz-Kampfgruppe
Sat Jul 24, 2004 06:24
205.188.116.7

after finishing anti-partisan ops in yugoslavia it shifted action to Greece:flew attacks on Italian garrisons around Greece that refused to surrender, after Italy’s capitulation bombed targets on Corfu (13 Sep 1943); action over Kalino Islands (18 Sep 43); based at Athens-Tatoi under the tactical control of X. Fl.Korps (30 Sep); supported ops to replace Italian troops formerly garrisoning the Greek islands and to seize the Dodecanese Islands from the British (3 Oct – 22 Nov); ops in the Samos - Leros area (24 Oct43); combat W of Kastellorizon Island (4 km off SE coast of Turkey) (30 Oct); unit bombed on ground at Athens-Eleusis (15 Nov); Gruppe was dissolved at Athens-Eleusis and its assets returned to bomber schools or reassigned to other units (shortly after 20 Nov 43).

Why do you want all this?
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  #14  
Old 07-31-2004, 12:58 PM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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From TOCH!:

M. Reising
Einsatz-Kampfgruppe
Sat Jul 24, 2004 06:56
4.137.8.130

Hi LwFlieger!

Thanks for the information!

Am a model builder and also have been interested in the Luftwaffe, WWII, for some time. Until last couple of years, mostly interested in the fighter aces and their aircraft.

Recently have been interested in the kampfflieger, their accomplishments and aircraft. Have been spending some time reading about and researching all of the Ju 88 units operating in the various theaters of operation. Foreign users as well, Finland, Hungary and Romania.

The more I've learned, the more I've wanted to learn more...what an aircraft!

Until recently, knew little about Ju 88 units in the Balkans. Now well informed thanks to you, Steve W., Mr. Pausey and others,

Best regards,

m. reising
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  #15  
Old 07-31-2004, 01:01 PM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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From TOCH! in response to M. Reising's question of Tue Jul 20, 2004 05:41:

LwFlieger
Re: Ju 88 Units over Yugoslavia
Fri Jul 23, 2004 09:16
64.12.116.8

What more do you want? In the meantime I found that NSGr7 and 10 both did anti-partisan ops in Yugoslavia.
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  #16  
Old 07-31-2004, 01:02 PM
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From TOCH!:

Rabe Anton
Luftwaffe Anti-partisan Ops in Yugoslavia
Mon Jul 19, 2004 17:18
132.60.240.80

You probably won't like this, but it's a fact nonetheless.
ULTRA Main Series of Signals to Allied Units in the Field
(104 rolls in Series I, 39 rolls in Series II) (Clearwater Publishing, 1979) on 35mm microfilm is one of the best (and least appreciated) sources for Luftwaffe operations in the Balkans. A goldmine of information if you're willing to go after it. The original messages, of course, are in the Public Record Office at Kew, England. I thank Steve W. for putting me onto this invaluable source some years ago. If you find some substantial literature on anti-partisan ops, please let us know. It is not a pleasant subject, and it seems little has been written about it.

RA
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  #17  
Old 07-31-2004, 01:03 PM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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From TOCH!:

Steve W.
Yugoslavia
Mon Jul 19, 2004 18:05
205.188.116.83

Here are two others that took part in provided air support for anti-partisan operations in Jugoslavia, both flying Ju 88As:

II./LG 1 (from Jan to Feb 43 while temporarily based at Belgrade-Zemun),
IV./LG 1 (from Feb to Jun 43 while based at Salonika-Sedes).

Those two plus the unit mentioned by Herr LwFlieger covers most of them. As Herr Dr. Rabe suggested, your best would be to use the Clearwater microfilms. However, if you can read Serbo-Croatian, I can direct you to many books and articles covering the activity of the Luftwaffe in Yugoslavia.

HTH,

Steve W.
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  #18  
Old 07-31-2004, 01:04 PM
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From TOCH!:

Rabe Anton
Yugoslav Anti-partisan Ops
Mon Jul 19, 2004 18:24
132.60.240.80

Steve W. has noted that elements of LG 1 conducted anti-partisan ops in the Balkans during 1943. Happily, it happens that the second volume of Peter Taghon's history of LG 1 has either just appeared or is very near distribution.
Could help?

RA
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  #19  
Old 07-31-2004, 01:05 PM
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From TOCH!:

M. Reising
Ju 88 Units over Yugoslavia
Tue Jul 20, 2004 05:36
4.137.11.32

Thanks Steve W.!

On couple of other places, I saw 1.(F)122, long range reconnaissance unit, listed in Croatia and Greece during late 1943.

Also, II/KG 51 in Salonika and II/KG 6 in Larissa, September to November 1943.

Am assuming that these units were primarily in action against the Royal Navy and Commonwealth Forces in the Dodecanese Islands in the Fall of 1943.

Any records that these units might also have participated in the Anti-Partisan Operations?

Best,

m. reising
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  #20  
Old 07-31-2004, 01:06 PM
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From TOCH!:

Steve W.
Re: Ju 88 Units over Yugoslavia
Tue Jul 20, 2004 15:13
64.12.116.82

Yes, II./KG 6 and II./KG 51 both deployed to Greece in Sep 43 and remained there through Nov 43. Both were used exclusively in the Aegean and Dodecanese Is. area against British air, naval and ground forces and did not take part in anti-partisan operations in Yugoslavia.

In addition to 1.(F)/122, 2.(F)/123 was also based in Greece but neither appear to have taken part in A-P ops in Jugoslavija, save perhaps for a few aerial photos that may have been requested.

Fliegerführer Kroatien, the A-P air support command in Yugoslavia, operated with light, single-engine forces comprising mostly obsolete aircraft of little use elsewhere. Multi-engine bomber support was only called up on rare occasions, and then only for the really big A-P sweeps such as "Weiss" and "Schwarz". In 1944 Bulgarian AF Do 17s were used for several A-P Unternehmen in northern Serbia and in Montenegro, but that's about it. As you can well imagine, air support against Tito's partisan forces was pretty ineffectual. It was only during "Schwarz" in June 1943 that air power was brought to bear with any effect. From 1944 on, Balkan Air Force operating out of Italy flew near-constant fighter cover over Yugoslavia making the employment of Luftwaffe bombers far too risky.

HTH,

Steve W.
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