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  #1  
Old 08-03-2000, 04:28 AM
Gordy Alton Gordy Alton is offline
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http://www.aviation.nmstc.ca/eng/english_home.html

is the url to get you to the Canadian Aviation Museum, which is in French and English, because we have two national languages here in Canada. The site is still under construction, but there is some great stuff there. Photos of existing planes, including a Bf109, which they have done an excellent job on. I won't say too much more, I want you to go have a look. Stop back and tell me and the rest of the site what you like, and maybe what you would like to see. I have written a couple of emails to them, and will gladly pass on suggestions resulting from any discussion that takes place here. Because this is a government site, the input from the public is important, so please bring things up with them, or with us here.


------------------
Remember those who gave their all.
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  #2  
Old 08-03-2000, 04:36 AM
Gordy Alton Gordy Alton is offline
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Here is a little more info on the Canadian Museum.


Canada Aviation Museum

11 Aviation Parkway
Ottawa, Ontario
K1K 4R3

(See Maps for directions)

Mailing Address:
P.O. Box 9724, Station T
Ottawa, Ontario
K1G 5A3

The Canada Aviation Museum operates under the Canada Museum of Science and Technology Corporation (NMSTC) along with the Canada Science and Technology Museum and the Canada Agriculture Museum

Opening Hours:

Summer Schedule in effect
Monday 9:00 AM - 5:00 PM
Tuesday 9:00 AM - 5:00 PM
Wednesday 9:00 AM - 5:00 PM
Thursday 9:00 AM - 9:00 PM
Friday 9:00 AM - 5:00 PM
Saturday 9:00 AM - 5:00 PM
Sunday 9:00 AM - 5:00 PM


Telephone:

General information (613) 993-2010

(800) 463-2038 (Toll free)*

(613) 990-7530 TTY


Media relations (613) 993-4243


Education services, school programs and guided tours (613) 993-4264


Facility rentals (613) 990-5047

* only available in Canada


E-mail:

General inquiries: aviation@nmstc.ca
No reference questions please. See Library for more info.

They have several Luftwaffe planes there, which are individually covered on their site, complete with photos, general history, specific aircaft history, and technical specifications:

Heinkel He 162A-1 Volksjager (120076) - 2 color photos
Heinkel He 162A-1 Volksjager (120086) - 1 general color photo, 1 cockpit color photo
Hispano HA-1112-M1L Buchon (C.4K-114) - 1 general color photo, 1 cockpit color photo
Junkers W34f/fi (CF-ATF) - 2 B&W photos
Messerschmitt Bf 109F-4 (10132) - 1 general color photo, 1 cockpit color photo
Messerschmitt Me 163B-1a Komet (191916) - 2 color photos

The museum's library has "over 10,000 books, 7,000 bound periodicals, 7,500 technical manuals, and over 35,000 research photographs focuses on the history of aeronautics, both civilian and military, with particular but not exclusive emphasis on the Canadian experience."

The website maintains an on-line catalog for shopping.

This is a great web page, and very well done. A good description and history is provided for most of the aircraft there.
Gordy.

[This message has been edited by Richard T Eger (edited 25 February 2001).]
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  #3  
Old 08-20-2000, 08:50 PM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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From 12 O'clock High!:

Renald Fortier
Komet colors and markings
Wed Feb 17 13:35:38 1999


Dear Sir:

Our Museum is looking for color and markings information on Messerschmitt Me 163Bs assembled by Klemm Technik in 1945 from components manufactured elsewhere in Germany. These aircraft were apparently delivered to 11 JG/400 in the spring of 1945.

We have reasons to doubt the authenticity of the current paint schemes in our collection, WNr. 191095 and WNr. 191916, and would like to find accurate sources or color photos on which to base a new paint scheme.

Please do not hesitate to contact us at the E-mail address below.
Sincerely yours,
Renald Fortier
Curator, Aviation History
National Aviation Museum
Ottawa, Canada
rfortier@nmstc.ca
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  #4  
Old 02-27-2001, 02:13 AM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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From 12 O'clock High!:

Virgil ONeil
Horst Carganico
Fri Jan 26 19:14:20 2001


I am looking for confirmation (source) that the "Mickey Mouse" holding a pair of shoes shown on Carganico's 109G-6 are fancy shoes that he was wearing when he was
shot down in an earlier aircraft. There is a photo of this marking on pg 34 of Karl Ries "Markings and Camoflage Systems of Luftwaffe Aircraft in WW II" Thanks
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  #5  
Old 02-27-2001, 02:14 AM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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From TOCH!:

Dénes Bernád
Carganico's shoes
Fri Jan 26 19:30:23 2001


I read somewhere (I hate this expression, but that's the best I can say at the moment), that there were two dates written on Mickey Mouse's shoes, the two occasions
when he was shot down behind enemy lines and had to walk (run?) back to his comrades.

Dénes
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  #6  
Old 02-27-2001, 02:15 AM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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From TOCH!:

Jim P.
Don't know bout fancy shoes, but Denes is right. n/t
Fri Jan 26 22:02:19 2001
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  #7  
Old 02-27-2001, 02:16 AM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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From TOCH!:

Many SouFFan
shoes for the come back...
Fri Jan 26 21:17:27 2001


Hello.
you're right Dénes. Carganico was shot down twice in summer 42. the first the 22 july and he came back by feet to his base on 25 july. the second on 12 august, he came
back on day later, always by feet. these dates were written on the fuselage of his Bf 109 with a "Micky Maus" who seems to say: "I am always there but I keep my
shoes... who knows"

Many.

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  #8  
Old 02-27-2001, 02:17 AM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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From TOCH!:

Mark Sheppard
Carganico
Fri Jan 26 22:20:49 2001


He had two crashg landings in Northern Russia. Both were in desolate areas although not confirmed as behind Soviet lines.

On July 22nd 1942, Bf 109 F-4 Werke Nr10256 of Stab II/JG5 had to undertake an emergency landing due to engine trouble, this time at Murowskij. He returned to his unit
on the 23rd July 1942

On 12th August 1942, Bf109 F-4 Werke Nr10132 of Stab II/JG5, Carganicowas in a schwarm (4 aircraft) escorting a FW189 over the Liza Front and Murmansk, 10132 was
involved in an air combat with Russian fighters. The aircraft was hit from the rear starboard quarter with bullets passing through the fuselage and wings, and significantly,
through the radiator and one bullet even went through a propeller blade - sufficient damage to require an immediate landing, but not bad enough to bale out. It is thought he
was trying to get back to his own lines when the engine seized. He belly landed in an area called Motowka (Motovski Fjord - ad old Finnish name Moutkavouno or
"Torturous Fiord") . He returned to his unit on the 13th August 1942.

Both of these aircraft have been recovered. 10256 was with Warbirds Recovery Inc in Colorado a few years ago.

Bf109 F-4 is now fully restored and on display at Canada's National Aviation Museum, fully replensished with a small Micky mouse and the four leaf clover fo II/JG5. (It is
know 10132 carried both these emblmes but they had been removed between 1942-1980 by souvenier hunters).

The running shoes emblem was added because it was literally that, that he ran for most of the time to get to his unit.

Hope this helps.

MS
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  #9  
Old 02-27-2001, 02:18 AM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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From TOCH!:

Many SouFFan
re Carganico
Sat Jan 27 13:54:26 2001


Thank you Mark.

But for the first emergency landing he returned to his base not the 23rd july but the 25th july as it's written on his plane.
It's clearly visible on the 2 famous photographs of this plane (one with the black cat on the top of the fuselage and the another with out the animal).

you have the number 25 and just under the number 13 and without doubt you can see the difference between 5 and 3

Thank you again Mark

Internet is beautiful !!!, every day I learn something

MS.

[This message has been edited by Richard T Eger (edited 07 March 2001).]
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  #10  
Old 02-27-2001, 02:19 AM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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From TOCH!:

Mark Sheppard
Carganico
Sun Jan 28 00:00:02 2001


Many

Sorry about that. Doing it on memeoriy. Forget he was missing for three days on his first crash landing.

You are correct. That is the adcantage of that photo, otherwisr both 10256 and 10132 would not be attributed to Carganico.

Hopefully a full article on the guy will hopefully be in the pipeline over the next year. A fascinating person.

Mark
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  #11  
Old 02-27-2001, 02:29 AM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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From TOCH!:

Virgil O'Neil
thanks
Sat Jan 27 22:50:31 2001


Thanks to all for the speedy reply to my query. I am doing a Luftwaffe calendar for 2002 and Horst is one of the "Experten" featured.
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  #12  
Old 03-07-2001, 03:02 AM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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T. C. Kenny has created a beautiful website entitled "The Flightline" WW II Aviation Archive. A number of museum photos are presented which should be of interest. The site address is:

http://www.kotfsc.com/aircraft/main.htm

Aircraft of Luftwaffe interest are covered in the following sections. Some photo labelling is incorrect, so be cautious. I've done the best I can to identify the aircraft as well as the museums some of the photos were taken at, but I certainly could be wrong in some of these.

Fighter Aircraft

The main page to this section has a beautiful color photo of two yellow nose Bf 109's in flying formation. Each aircraft covered has generally a lead color photo, technical specifications, background information, a list of variants, and a color profile. The aircraft covered are:

<U>Bf 109</U>
Bf 109 - lead color photo
Finnish Air Force Messerschmitt Bf 109G-6 (MT-507), Finnish AF Museum, Tikkakoski, Finland - 2 color photos
Spanish built HA-1112-M1L with a 1,400 hp (1044 kw) Rolls-Royce Merlin 500-45 engine, Confederate Air Force, Midland, Texas, USA - 1 color photo
Messerschmitt Bf 109G-2/trop "Gustav" on museum display, Luftfahrtmuseum, Laatzen, Hannover, Germany - 1 color photo
Messerschmitt Bf 109G-10 (black 2), USA, partially disassembled showing the fuselage - 1 color photo

<U>Bf 110</U>
Bf 110G-4/R-6, RAFM Hendon, England - lead color photo
A pair of Messerschmitt Bf 110Cs in flight - 1 wartime color photo

<U>Me 163 Komet "Comet"</U>
Me 163B-1a, National Aviation Museum, Ottawa, Canada - lead color photo

<U>Me 262 Schwalbe "Swallow"</U>
Me 262A, Planes of Fame, Chino, CA, USA - lead color photo

<U>Me 210/Me 410 Hornisse "Hornet"</U>
Me 410A-1, RAFM Cosford, England - lead color photo
The rear facing remote-controlled gun barbette on the Me 410A-1, RAFM Cosford, England - color photo

<U>Fw 190 A-Series "Wurger"</U>
Ground crews prepare a line up of Fw-190A's for flight - wartime color photo

<U>Fw 190 D-Series "Dora"</U>
Fw 190D-9, possibly the D-13 at Champlin Fighter Museum, Arizona, USA - lead color photo
A captured Fw-190D at an Allied airfield - apparently wartime color photo

<U>Fw 190 Late Series</U>
The cockpit of a Fw 190F-8 - color photo
A Focke-Wulf Fw 190F-8/U1 two seat trainer, RAFM Henden, England - color photo

<U>Ta 152</U>
The Focke-Wulf Ta 152 with a "tropical type" filter on the inlet of the carburetor - B&W photo

<U>Do 335 Pfeil "Arrow"</U>
Do-335A-02 Pfeil "Arrow", owned by NASM, USA - lead B&W photo
Do 335 Ejection Seat - B&W photo
Do 335 Cockpit Layout - color photo
Do335A-0 VP+GH (Wk Nr. 240102), owned by NASM, USA - color photo

<U>He 49 / He 51</U>

<U>He 162 Salamander</U>
He 162A-2 Salamander, National Aviation Museum, Ottawa, Canada - lead color photo

Bomber Aircraft

<U>Ar 234 Blitz "Lightning"</U>

<U>Do 17/Do 215</U>

<U>Do 217</U>
The Ruhrstahl SD 1400 X or Ruhrstahl/Kramer X-1 (Fritz X) Armour Piercing Anti-Shipping Guided missle, RAFM Cosford, England - color photo

<U>He 111</U>
CASA-2.111F, probably Confederate Air Force, Midland, Texas, USA - lead color photo

<U>He 177 Greif "Griffon"</U>
The Henschel 293 Anti-Shipping Guided Missle - B&W photo

<U>He 219 Uhu "Owl"</U>

<U>Junkers Ju 86</U>

<U>Ju 88/Ju 88 Mistel</U>
Junkers Ju 88A, RAFM Cosford, England - lead color photo
Junkers Ju 188 Mistel Composite - B&W photo

<U>Ju 188/Ju 288/Ju 388</U>
Junkers Ju 388L-0 Photoreconnaissance aircraft - B&W wartime photo

Attack Aircraft

<U>Ju 87 Stuka</U>
Ju 87G-2, RAFM Hendon, England - lead color photo

<U>Hs 123</U>

<U>Hs 129</U>

Military Ranks

Color charts of air force insignia are given for:

Germany
Japan
Italy
France
Soviet Union
Commonwealth
United State

Regards,
Richard

[This message has been edited by Richard T Ege
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  #13  
Old 07-08-2002, 01:20 PM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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The Luftwaffe Gallery website main features are its numerous color photos and profiles of Luftwaffe aircraft. The site actually consists of 2 sites, an older site and an updated site. The older site address is:

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Ba...fegallery.html

Sections on the older site are:

Galleries - Color photos, except as noted. No captions. Quantities of photos are listed as - 2, - 3, etc.

<U>Gallery 1</U>

Me 262, V 056 - 1
Me 262, WN 170303 - 1
Bf 109 - 8
MG 151/20 - 1 b&w dwg.
MG 213 - 1 b&w dwg.
MK 103 - 1 b&w dwg.
MK 112 - 1 b&w dwg.
Me 262, WN 170045 - 1 color isometric dwg.
Me 262, V 555 - 1 color isometric dwg.
Me 262, WN 170078 - 1 color profile
Me 262, V 083 - 1 color profile

<U>Gallery 2</U>

Me 262, V 056 - 3
Me 262, V 167 - 2
Bf 109G-2/Trop, WN 10639, black 6, RAFM Hendon - 4
possible Bf 109G-10, WN 151591, Messerschmitt Foundation - 3
Bf 109 - 3

<U>Gallery 3</U>

Bf 109G-2/Trop, WN 10639, Black 6, RAFM Hendon - 4 or 5
possible Bf 109G-10, WN 151591, Messerschmitt Foundation - 3
Bf 109 - 6 or 7

<U>Gallery 4</U>

Bf 109 engine - 1
Bf 110G-4/R-6, WN 730301, D5+RL, RAFM Hendon - 4
DB 605 engine, RAFM Hendon -1
Fw 190F-8/U1 (S-8), WN 584219, Black 38, RAFM Hendon - 3
Fw 190A-8/R6, WN 733682, IWM, London - 1
He 111H-20, WN 701152, NT+5L, RAF Hendon - 1
Ju 87G-2, WN 494083, "RI+JK", RAF Hendon - 1
Fi 103F-1, WN 477663, IWM, London - 1
Bf 110 rudder - 1

<U>Gallery 5</U>

Bf 110 - 5
Bf 109 - 2
Fw 190 - 1
Ta 152H-0, WN 150003, FE-112, postwar photo, now at NASM Garber - 1
Me 163B-1a, WN 191904, Luftwaffe Museum, Gatow - 1
Me 163B-1a, WN 191907, AWM - 1
Me 163B-1a, WN 191916, Yellow 26, National Aviation Museum, Canada - 1
Me 163B-1a - 1

Color Plates - Color profiles, except as noted

<U>Plates 1</U>

Bf 109 - 18

<U>Plates 2</U>

Bf 109 - 18

<U>Plates 3</U>

Fw 190 - 18

<U>Plates 4</U>

Fw 190 - 18

<U>Plates 5</U>

Fw 190 - 18

<U>Plates 6</U>

Fw 190 - 18

<U>Plates 7</U>

Ju 87 - 22

<U>Plates 8</U>

Bf 109 - 18

<U>Plates 9</U>

Bf 109 - 11
Bf 110 - 10

<U>Plates 10</U>

Bf 110 - 8
BF 109 - 1
Fw 190 - 1
Me 262 - 1
He 219 - 1
Ju 88 - 5

<U>Plates 11</U>

Me 262 - 15

<U>Plates 12</U>

Me 262 - 11
Ar 234 - 1
Me 163 - 3
He 162 - 2

<U>Plates 13</U>

Bf 110 - 4
Ar 234 - 1
Fw 190 - 1
Do 215 - 4
Ju 88 - 3
He 219 - 5

<U>Plates 14</U>

Bf 110 - 21

<U>Plates 15</U>

Bf 110 - 19 + 2 isometric drawings

<U>Plates 16</U>

Ju 87 - 16

<U>Plates 17</U>

Ju 87 - 17

Luftwaffe Aces

Table listing aces with 100 or more victories, gving name, rank, unit, confirmed victories, number of 4-engined bombers destroyed, and highest award. Photo and a brief biography are given for each ace.

Luftwaffe Rank Insignia - Aircraft markings for different staff positions within a Gruppe.

Luftwaffe Codes - Text and tables explaining and identifying the 4-digit aircraft code.

Links - Links to 7 Luftwaffe related sites.


The site has an updated second site, which can be accessed by clicking on the sentence:

"For more photos check the new site:http://luftgallery.wronger.com/"

This is on the home page of the older site. The sections are:

Galleries - Here, the photos are captioned - a significant improvement. Many of the photos are repeats from the older site. Included here are both color and b&w photos.

</U>Gallery 1</U>

Bf 109 - 5 color, 1 color profile
Fw 190 - 1 color, 1 b&w
Downed Spitfire inspected by Hans-Joachim Jabs - 1 b&w
Heinmz Schnaufer & crew - 1 b&w

<U>Gallery 2</U>

Bf 109 - 2 color, 1 color profile
Me 163 - 1 color
Ju 88 - 1 color
Bf 110 - 3 color
Me 262, WN 500491, NASM - 1 color
Ju 87, WN 2883 - 1 color (recent photo)
Fw 190 - 3 color, 1
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  #14  
Old 09-02-2002, 12:33 PM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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From 12 O'Clock High!:

James L. Turner
HE 162 details
Thu Jul 18 21:07:27 2002
64.12.96.237

Gentlemen,
I am researching the HE162. Does anyone know of a breakdown showing which components were made from wood and which of metal? I know the wings were and some of the nose cones but what about such parts as the landing gear doors and the tail control surfaces?
Thank you
J. Turner
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  #15  
Old 09-02-2002, 12:33 PM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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From TOCH!:

R. P. von Lutz
He 162
Sun Jul 21 05:33:40 2002
66.214.112.2

The He 162 at the Chino Planes of Fame Museum has wooden nose cone, gunbay doors, landing gear doors, wing (except tips), and one engine to fuselage fairing (the other is metal), and control surfaces. The rest was aluminum.
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Old 09-02-2002, 12:34 PM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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From TOCH!:

LwFlieger
He 162 parts
Mon Jul 29 02:57:38 2002
152.163.197.52

In 1973 I had the opportunity to examine one of the He 162s possessed by Canada's aviation museum at Rockliffe near Ottawa. The fuselage is generally conventional aluminum monocoque construction but supposedly the upper part of the rear fuselage is steel in order to better resist ther effect of heat from the jet efflux. The interior has virtually no corrosion protection, just some brush-on sealant at the joints and rivets. The wings and tail are made of wood with metal reinforcements here and there. The nose cap is molded wood paste. The landing gear doors are made of heat formed plywood approx. 6 mm thick. This is backed up by blocks and framing glued (and nailed?) to the plywood. Hinges appear to be nothing more than ordinary domestic door hinges! The canopy appears to have been blown in one piece and then trimmed and cut into two parts. Canopy frames are actually laminated or steam formed wood fitted up against the inside of the canopy. A number of screws through the plexiglas into the wood secures it. Main landing gear is directly from the Bf 109G.

This plane must have been terrifying to fly!

At that time I had taken a number of close-up pics of this plane and I even filched a flake of underside paint! As fate would have it, a friend of mine worked at the National War Museum and one day we had a ride home by the fellow who had painted that plane! I was amazed and agog when he told us that he had used the old He 162 "Profile" publication as his source and mixed the paint accordingly!!! He was just like a casual model-maker but painting in one-to-one scale. As a result I had a good belly laugh when an ostensibly authoritative author on camouflage cited this plane as having an authentic paint job!

By the way, that same museum had (in August 1973) a second He 162 and a second Me 163 in a disassembled state. I have seen them with my own eye-balls!
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  #17  
Old 09-02-2002, 12:35 PM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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From TOCH!:

James L.Turner
HE 162
Fri Aug 2 12:54:56 2002
152.163.189.234

To friends,
Thanks for the responses. It has filled in the gaps in my research. Best of luck.
Jim T.
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  #18  
Old 06-11-2003, 04:03 PM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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From within a thread on 12 O'Clock High!:

Christer Bergström
"Canadian" Bf 109 flown by German ace
Mon May 12 14:02:05 2003
81.224.233.238

The Bf 109 E-3 (serial number 1190) of 4./JG 26 was shot down above Beachy Head by a 92 Squadron Spitfire pilot on 30 September 1940. The pilot, Unteroffizier Horst Perez, managed to belly-land his plane and survived.

Another famous "Canadian" Bf 109 F-4/trop (serial number 10132) was sold to the Canadians by the Russians in the 1990s. Its had been piloted II./JG 5's Gruppenkommandeur, Major Horst Carganico - the Knight's Cross holder and fighter ace. There's a profile of this particular aircraft in Claes Sundin's and my book "More Luftwaffe Fighters in Profile", and there is a story about this aircraft in Vol. 3 of "Black Cross/Red Star", vol. 3 - which will be published by Eagle Editions later this year. Among other things, this aircraft was used flying in a Soviet war movie.

http://www.bergstrombooks.elknet.pl/bc-rs/
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Old 06-11-2003, 04:04 PM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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From TOCH!:

Franek Grabowski
"Canadian" Bf 109 flown by German ace
Mon May 12 14:35:02 2003
213.25.54.73

AFAIK Carganico's aircraft was found in 1970s in the crashsite thus couldn't have been flown in any movie. Then she was put on exhibit at a local museum but unfortunatelly 'bad people appeared'. In the effect Messer went West, the museum staff being certain she was borrowed, and the Western collector that she was acquired. Then aircraft was bouth by USAFM and exchanged for Me 163.
In general most of the 'Eastern recoveries' are brought illegally and often stolen from the local museums that can't claim their property.
Franek
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  #20  
Old 06-11-2003, 04:05 PM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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From TOCH!:

George Hopp
Thanks for that, Franek, ...
Tue May 13 01:02:59 2003
216.191.233.220

I'm sorry to hear that the F-4/Trop now at the Canada Air Museum might have been, in effect, stolen. We were always under the impression that it was sold to the British restorer to gain hard currency for Russia after the collapse of the Soviet Union. Then, that we got the 109F in a 3-way deal that involved us giving up one of our two 163s.

For what it's worth, the aircraft is a very popular museum exhibit, and I enjoy taking people behind the barrier to show them how the bullets raked across it. The bullet holes, which were retained (including one in a propeller blade), indicate that the slats were out when the a/c was hit, so Hptm Carcanico must have been close to the stall and probably pulling G like there was no tomorrow. Luckily for him, the only things to hit the a/c were small calibre bullets. The restoration appears to have been well done, except that it now has a G canopy rather than the original F one.
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