Copyrights, user fees, etc.

[Richard T Eger]

I would like to begin this topic with the caveat that I am not a lawyer and that the opinions expressed by various people in the subsequent threads are their own and not an endorsement by LWAG.

Regards,
Richard

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Peter D Evans
MP499 - Focke-Wulf Fw190A-3, W.Nr.313
Tue Mar 4 16:02:17 2024
62.30.112.1

Hi all...

I have been asked if I am able to supply a copyrighted image of MP499, a Fw190A-3, W.Nr.313 which was the first such Fw190 to fall into Allied hands in June 1942. If you have the copyright to such an image and would allow it to be used in an aviation related article or can point me in the direction of somebody who can, please contact me directly at:

orbscure@blueyonder.co.uk

and I will put you in contact with the person asking...

Thanks in advance for any help or pointers,

Peter D Evans - moderator
LEMB - Luftwaffe Experten Message Board: http://pub157.ezboard.com/bluftwaffeexperten71774

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

John Beaman
copyright photos
Tue Mar 4 17:40:08 2024
216.136.45.130

Peter:

All the photos one sees of this a/c sitting in England belong to the IWM, I think, or PRO. I seem to recall there is a photo of it in France that may be in Crandall's new book on Hahn. This would be from German sources, so you might check with Eagle-Editions.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Stephen
Also from other sources too.
Tue Mar 4 18:53:26 2024
24.72.39.156

I've seen a number of photos, some the same as seen on "other publications" of this bird that the RCAF took. As for copyright, these images are over 50 years old, so copyright really doesn't exisit, either for the IWM or Jerry and Judy.

In otherwords, use them as you see fit.

Stephen

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Sergio Luis dos Santos
No copyright after 50 years ?...
Tue Mar 4 19:19:51 2024
200.151.58.205

Have you bought some images from IWM lately?? I got last year a series of photos from Spitfires donated by Brasil to RAF. Believe me. The prices for publishing are high!!

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Stephen
A user fee
Tue Mar 4 19:37:26 2024
24.72.39.156

Yes, well of course because what the IWM are doing is charging you a user fee, and not for the copyright.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Jim P.
I have several prints that were originally...
Tue Mar 4 20:37:03 2024
64.223.199.2

printed by the IWM. As I recall they clearly state that they are copyrighted. And I have absolutely no problem with that. Wasn't there a recent discussion on museums dumping materials due to lack of funds? Where do you think these funds come from?

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Peter D Evans
copyright...
Tue Mar 4 22:47:33 2024
62.30.112.1

Thanks for the response/comments everybody. As I thought, copyright issues with images, especially from museum archives are fraught with problems. I was hoping that one individual would have their own image of this bird that they would be willing to allow use of at short notice.

Thanks again for the comments and suggestions...

Peter D Evans - moderator
Luftwaffe Experten Message Board: http://pub157.ezboard.com/bluftwaffeexperten71774

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Franek Grabowski
I have several prints that were originally...
Wed Mar 5 14:03:40 2024
213.25.54.73

Copyrights are rather clear. The copyright holder is the photographer or institution which ordered taking the photos, eventually the person or institution to which copyrights were handed over by the above. Usually copyright is held for a 50 years after the first publication.
Claiming a copyright and getting a fee is a big difference and it's strange nobody ever noticed this problem.
I don't have anything bad to say about IWM as they're very researcher friendly and holds crown copyrighted photos (still valid), however there're some archives like ECPA which holds a stuff they've absolutelly no copyright, their prices are excessive and are unavailable for ordinary people.
Franek

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Andrew Arthy
ECPA
Thu Mar 6 00:48:48 2024
129.180.1.204

Hi Franek,

I have to agree with you regarding the ECPA. Their prices for photos are ridiculous, especially if you want to publish them (something like 230 Euros per photo!!!)

Cheers,
Andrew A.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

CJE
ECPA
Thu Mar 6 04:21:34 2024
80.11.88.217

Using regularly photographs from ECPA, I can tell that their fees though on the high side are 10 times cheaper than a press agency. They depend on the size you print the photograph. For a common 1/8th page fees are around 50 euros, the 230 euros you refer to are probably for a colour front cover.
In France the owner of the copyright is the person who owns the original negative and as far as the Luftwaffe archives are concerned they do own the negatives. As long as you own the negative there is no time limit.
I have been told ECPA reached an agreement with BA and the whole collection should be returned to Koblenz within a couple of years, ECPA keeping a copy of the negative for their own exploitation.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Franek Grabowski
ECPA
Thu Mar 6 22:32:32 2024
213.25.54.73

I'm not sure about the copyrights as in case of negative's loss this would mean the loss of copyright itself. The problem here is however that no official IIIrd Reich photos are copyrighted - this is due to agreements of the winning powers.
Regarding the prices, I've my own opinion about the press agencies but still ECPA fees are just too expensive for most of the publishers, it's extremally rare to put one photo only. Otherwise policy of selling the photos only for cpublisher-contracted persons and not allowing to make refference photocopies just make this archive very researcher unfriendly. Note that most of the researchers are amateurs with the limited budget.
Franek