Etablissement Cinématographique et photographique des armées - 2

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

jerry brewer
15.span / JG51in france ( legion azul )
Sun Oct 3, 2024 17:49
81.178.203.31

HI
A question on the following

Most photos of 15.span/jg51 I have seen are credited to ECPA ( the french archive ).

From the excellent 'ww2.dk' site :-

15. (span.)/JG51:
Formed 21.6.42 in Bordeaux.
21.6.42 - 7.42 Bordeaux Bf 109E/F
7.42 - 11.42 Orel Bf 109E/F
11.42 - 12.42 Bordeaux Bf 109F
12.42 - 6.43 Orel(?) Bf 109F
6.43 - 5.7.43 Toulouse Fw 190A

Three stays in France,( I presume Orel is east front area )

Would therefore the photos have been taken at Bordeaux or Toulouse ?

Was 15.span/jg51 operational in France, or have any combats over france ?

also looking for a source of the pilots names

Or anyone know of any good references on the unit.

( I have aerojournal No:11 already )
cheers
Jerry

[Richard T Eger]

From further within the thread on TOCH!:

Jim Haycraft
15 span/JG 51 etc.
Sun Oct 3, 2024 21:36
65.54.98.152

Though many photos of the Spanish air contingents serving in the Luftwaffe are credited to ECPA, none of the sources I have or have seen indicate that any Spanish volunteeer fighter units received training, were stationed on or operated from French bases. Spanish personnel did pass through occupied France on their way to Germany, but training and orientation was conducted in Germany (primarily at Werneuchen) and all five Spanish fighter squadrons were eventually operational as part of Luftwaffe fighter units in the Soviet Union - the first squadron assigned as 15/JG 27 and the second through fifth squadrons assigned as 15/JG 51; one squadron relieving the other. These units were collectively known as Escuadrillas Azules or Blue Squadrons. Franco very reluctantly agreed to supply combat units to assist Germany in WWII, despite the considerable help of the Legion Condor in Spains's civil war 1936-1939, for which Germany received valuable trade concessions and access to vital raw materials. Franco insisted that Spanish army and air units would only be used against Soviet forces and did not operate from or engage in combat over France or anywhere in western Europe! Spanish volunteers serving in the Waffen SS are another matter! The following sources should prove useful: AEROPLANO, October 1984, No. 2 - Actuacion en Rusia de las Escuadrillas Expedicionarias Espanolas by Jesus Salas Larrazabal(the best and most complete source); Escuadrillas Azules en Rusia - Santiago Guillen & Carlos Caballero (Almena Ediciones, Madrid 1999); The Blue Division and Squadron by Jose Maria Bueno Carrera (Aldaba Ediciones, Madrid 1991). These publications contain extensive name, victory and loss lists, as well as many seldom seen photos.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

jerry brewer
info
Mon Oct 4, 2024 14:03
81.178.203.31

Hi
thanks for the reply
Interesting why then , that ww2.dk lists the three stays in france, for the unit.
cheers
Jerry

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Jim Haycraft
Re: Info
Mon Oct 4, 2024 16:20
65.54.98.144

On a second, more detailed look at the Spanish text of several of my references, two flights of the 2nd Escuadrilla - those commanded by Capts. Asensi and Alos - did undergo training at St. Jean d'Angely, near La Rochelle during NOvember 1942, returning to Germany before deploying to the Soviet Union. I apologize for that oversight! There is also a reference that the 5th. Escuadrilla (or some flights) did train at the Luftwaffe base at Bergerac during February 1944. Your reference apparently has sources I'm unfamiliar with. The sources I referenced concentrate on the deployment, combat operations and personnel for the most part and only mention training briefly. The French connection is an interesting one - I'll have to have another closer look at the various Spanish accounts!

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

jerry brewer
thanks for info , interesting stuff !! (nm)
Mon Oct 4, 2024 21:34
81.178.203.31

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Roger Gaemperle
Again a copyright question....
Thu Dec 2, 2024 20:41
62.203.3.189


Hello,

I have the following question regarding copyright:

Assume that someone owns an original WWII photo and sends me a scan that he allows me to use in a book. If he then sells the WWII photo can I still publish it or do I run into problems? Unfortunately, I do not know the name of the new owner.

Thanks,
Roger Gaemperle

[Richard T Eger]

From further within the thread on TOCH!:

Phil
ECPA and Bundesarchives
Fri Dec 3, 2024 22:03
81.82.9.212


hello,

very interesting discussion. And what to think about those so expensive fees claimed by ECPA and Bundesarchives if you want to publish a photo coming from their archives?

regards

Phil

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Franek Grabowski
ECPA and Bundesarchives
Sat Dec 4, 2024 12:57
213.25.54.73


It is my understanding that Allies removed any copyrights for things created by III Reich, so the stuff offered by ECPA and BAMA is not copyrighted. I am wondering if well known Hugo Jaeger collection falls under this category, he was a war correspondent doing his job for German officials.
BAMA/ECPA high fees is one thing but another is access to the collections which IMHO qualifies for Strasbourg court.
Franek

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Anon.
Re: ECPA and Bundesarchives
Sat Dec 4, 2024 13:31
205.188.116.73


"BAMA/ECPA high fees is one thing but another is access to the collections which IMHO qualifies for Strasbourg court.
Franek"

A learned sage once said, "Possession is nine-tenths of the law."