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  #1  
Old 02-27-2004, 11:18 AM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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Default Hermann Graf & Alfred Grislawski, by Christer Bergström & Vlad Antipov - 5

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Greig
Graf's ME109G
Sat Feb 7 21:51:28 2004
67.72.207.102

Does anybody have any info on Graf's red tulip nosed 109 he flew with JGr50? I have seen alot of artist interpretations of this aircraft, one of it painted in white distemper. Is this an authentic rendition? I read the plane was destroyed when Graf collided with a Mustang. Do any actual pictures exist of this aircraft? In what publication?
Thanks
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  #2  
Old 02-27-2004, 11:19 AM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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From TOCH!:

Christer Bergström
See "Graf & Grislawski: A Pair of Aces"
Sat Feb 7 22:48:21 2004
81.225.209.126

Wow - yes, there are lots of photos of that aircraft. Some of them are published in the biography on Hermann Graf, "Graf & Grislawski: A Pair of Aces". See:

http://www.graf-grislawski.elknet.pl/index.htm

"I read the plane was destroyed when Graf collided with a Mustang."

Not that one, but another. See the same book for a detailed description, plus photos & exact colour profiles by Claes Sundin.

All best,

Christer Bergström
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  #3  
Old 03-03-2004, 12:47 PM
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From 12 O'Clock High!:

Anonymous
Yellow Focke Wulf A-6
Mon Feb 16 19:32:21 2004
80.197.58.249

Does anyone have information of a yellow painted Focke wulf A-6 flown by a Major von Graff. Von Graff should have had the Iron cross with swords, okeleaf and brilliants.

He should have been shut down my a French Spitfire pilot by the name Martell in July/August 1943.
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  #4  
Old 03-03-2004, 12:47 PM
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From further within the thread on TOCH!:

Orla Kragh Jensen
Le Grand Cirque
Tue Feb 17 09:54:12 2004
80.197.58.249

As I have seen this subject on the board earlier, it seems that no one have the real facts here, so I went out yesterday to find the book by Pierre Clostermann, The Great Circus. I found a Danish version from 1951 in a used book store, and I also found the passage where the yellow Focke Wulf is mentioned. Digging deeper into the "story" I found that the French pilot, Captain Martell, should have flown one of the following Spitfire IX, NL-C, -A, -S or -D.
Unfortunately, "the diary" is lacking dates, meaning that nothing seems to be clear about this subject.

It would be interesting to clear this case once and for all, so the myth about a yellow Focke Wulf could be accepted or rejected.

Orla.
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  #5  
Old 03-03-2004, 12:50 PM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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From further within the thread on TOCH!:

Christer Bergström
In "Graf & Grislawski: A Pair of Aces"...
Tue Feb 17 23:22:48 2004
81.225.209.126

Okay, I just thought someone was trying to make fun of us. I apologise. I guess I've exaggerated how well-known this is:

"On July 27, 1943, a German fighter ace by the name of "von Graff" was injured in combat with a Free French Spitfire pilot, according to French fighter ace Pierre Clostermann's memoirs. A common question is: "Was this Hermann Graf?" This will be analyzed in detail in the book."

The book in question is "Graf & Grislawski: A Pair of Aces". In that book, I analyze the question whether "von Graff" is identical with Hermann Graf - on pages 174 and 301. In that context, I also deal with the question of the all-yellow Fw 190.

See:

http://www.graf-grislawski.elknet.pl/intro.htm
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  #6  
Old 03-03-2004, 12:51 PM
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From TOCH!:

Orla Kragh Jensen
Yellow wing tips.
Wed Feb 18 08:26:21 2004
80.197.58.249

Hi Christer.

Thank you for sharing the information with us. I did read the full book by P. Closterman, and in his Spit. days, he refers a lot to yellow wing tips also.
I'll see if I can get the "Graf & Grislawski" book and dig deeper into this case.

And Misko. I signed up at the AWF last night after your posting here.

Orla.
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  #7  
Old 03-05-2004, 11:57 AM
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From 12 O'Clock High!:

Nonny
Der Fuhrer's Fighter Escort
Wed Feb 18 13:20:05 2004
217.132.223.52

There is 1942 Wochenschau footage of Hitler flying to Finland in an He111 & to Kharkov in an Fw200. On flying these trips, was he given a fighter escort?
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  #8  
Old 03-05-2004, 11:58 AM
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From further within the thread on TOCH!:

Christer Bergström
Read about it in the Graf & Grislawski book
Wed Feb 18 16:05:02 2004
81.225.209.126

Hermann Graf and a couple of other JG 52 aces flew from Kharkov to escort Hitler's Fw 200 to Poltava on 3 July 1942. Read all about it in the Graf & Grislawski book. There you can also see a photo of the occasion.

All best,

Christer Bergström

http://www.graf-grislawski.elknet.pl/index.htm
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  #9  
Old 03-07-2004, 01:35 PM
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From 12 O'Clock High!:

Anonymous
Graf's Me109g
Sat Feb 21 00:23:55 2004
67.192.80.215

Does anyone know if Graf's red tulip nosed 109 was ever painted in a winter white distemper? I have been told that there is a lot of photos of this aircraft but only one in what i thought was my vast luftwaffe book collection and that's at a bad angle. Not illustrations, god, those are everywhere! I don't have "A Pair of Aces" yet.
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  #10  
Old 03-07-2004, 01:35 PM
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From TOCH!:

Christer Bergström
Well, "Graf & Grislawski: A Pair of Aces"...
Sat Feb 21 14:33:56 2004
81.225.209.126

"Does anyone know if Graf's red tulip nosed 109 was ever painted in a winter white distemper?"

If you mean his tulip-nosed Bf 109 in JG 50, it couldn't have been, for JG 50 was disbanded before winter arrived.

If you mean his "official" aircraft in Stab/JG 52 in the winter of 1944/1945, I don't know. There probably are no photos.

"I have been told that there is a lot of photos of this aircraft."

Yes, probably hundreds of them´- if you mean his JG 50 aircraft.

"I don't have "A Pair of Aces" yet."

Well, if you're interested, maybe you should get "Graf & Grislawski: A Pair of Aces" before it's sold out. This meant only as a shameless piece of advertisting.

All best,

Christer Bergström

http://www.graf-grislawski.elknet.pl/index.htm

http://www.bergstrombooks.elknet.pl/bc-rs/
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  #11  
Old 03-07-2004, 01:36 PM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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From TOCH!:

Jim P.
Yes, probably hundreds of them´- if you mean his JG 50
Sat Feb 21 23:06:28 2004
67.242.219.125

'Yes, probably hundreds of them´- if you mean his JG 50 aircraft.'

Somewhere in my files I have an ancient article from some German magazine where the author trys to sort out Graf's JGr. 50 aircraft. As I recall, this author maintained that there were 5-7 different machines. I've never done the work to try and verify this claim, but there are, assuming the WNr. quoted in 'A Pair of Aces' is correct, at least two similarly marked machines - WNr. 15919 and 16346.
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  #12  
Old 03-07-2004, 01:39 PM
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From TOCH!:

Franek Grabowski
Well, "Graf & Grislawski: A Pair of Aces"...
Sat Feb 21 15:19:21 2004
213.25.54.73

>If you mean his "official" aircraft in Stab/JG 52 in the winter of 1944/1945, I don't know. There probably are no photos.

Is there any evidence of the use of the white distemper in the winter 1944/45 at all?

Franek
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  #13  
Old 03-07-2004, 01:39 PM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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From TOCH!:

Christer Bergström
Re: Well, "Graf & Grislawski: A Pair of Aces"...
Sat Feb 21 16:27:17 2004
81.225.209.126

"Is there any evidence of the use of the white distemper in the winter 1944/45 at all?"

I don't know. I suggest you e-mail an expert on the subject, like Claes Sundin.
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  #14  
Old 03-12-2004, 11:53 AM
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From 12 O'Clock High!:

Bard
Graf & Grislawski
Wed Feb 25 08:28:07 2004
130.67.46.76

Can anyone please tell me the size (in cm's) of this book ?

Bard
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  #15  
Old 03-12-2004, 11:54 AM
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From TOCH!:

Paulo Dario
Big, Heavy and ...
Wed Feb 25 21:01:24 2004
194.78.56.28

... and worth every cent you pay for it !!
I don't have it here now, but I'd guess around Letter size.

Regards
Paulo Dario
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  #16  
Old 03-12-2004, 11:54 AM
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From TOCH!:

Leon Venter
G&G Dimensions
Wed Feb 25 21:19:06 2004
63.205.184.150

Bard,

It's 22.5 * 29 * 3 cm.

(or 8 7/8 * 11 3/8 * 1 1/8 inches)

Leon Venter
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  #17  
Old 03-12-2004, 11:55 AM
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From TOCH!:

Bard
Many thanks ! (nm)
Thu Feb 26 08:29:44 2004
130.67.44.190
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  #18  
Old 06-27-2004, 02:56 PM
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From TOCH!:

Christer Bergström
Updates on the Graf & Grislawski site
Sun Jun 20, 2004 22:22
81.225.209.61

There are some updates on the Graf & Grislawski site, mainly some new "who shot down whom" on the Errata and Addition Page.

All best,

Christer Bergström

http://www.graf-grislawski.elknet.pl/
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  #19  
Old 07-06-2004, 12:31 PM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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From 12 O'Clock High!:

Christer Bergström
Graf´s & Grislawskí's Bf 109 Original rudders now on display 81.225.209.192

Friends, Claes Sundin and I just returned
from a trip to Germany where we took part in the inauguration of the display of the original siderudders belonging to Messerschmitt 109s flown by Hermann Graf & Alfred Grislawski in World War II at Technikmuseum Speyer.

Check out the update on this on the Graf & Grislawski website:

http://www.graf-grislawski.elknet.pl/rudderdisplay1.htm

"During a dignified ceremony at Technikmuseum Speyer on Friday, 25 June 2004, the two siderudders were presented to the Technikmuseum. The inauguration speech was held by Dipl. Ing. Manfred Lahyer, the owner of Technikmuseum Speyer and Sinsheim. Present were members of Traditionsgemeinschaft JG 52--including the JG 52 pilot veterans Walter Wolfrum and Fritz Klees with wife, Manfred Wägenbaur, Manfred Zaum, author Bernd Barbas, Peter Hallor, author of the “Graf & Grislawski” book Christer Bergström, and illustrator of the “Graf & Grislawski” book Claes Sundin--and the Gemeinschaft der Jagdflieger, represented by Karl Weigel, as well as the staff of the museum and Bundesluftwaffe officers.
The arrangement was covered by German press and television."

A German article of the event can be found here:

http://www.ifnd734.org/Jagdgeschwader52/

All best,

Christer Bergström
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  #20  
Old 07-06-2004, 12:32 PM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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From TOCH!:

Falcon
@Christer: The 109 is a G-4 and not a G-2
Mon Jun 28, 2004 17:57
217.231.42.113

@Christer: The 109 is a G-4 and not a G-2


"In the background, the original JG 52 Messerschmitt Bf 109 G-2 "Nesthäkchen"."
http://www.graf-grislawski.elknet.pl/rudderphoto.htm

Greetings
Falcon

BTW: Nice rudders!
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