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  #1  
Old 06-18-2004, 07:12 PM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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Default Service Historique de l'Armée de Terre

From 12 O'Clock High!:

KEITH KUTTESCH
B-17F SERIAL # 42-20302
Tue Jun 8, 2004 18:38
205.188.117.11

ON 6TH SEPT 1943 ON IT'S WAS BACK FROM A BOMBING MISSION TO STUTTGART. B-17F # 42-30203, NICK NAMED "SHACK-UP", WAS SHOT DOWN BY GERMAN FIGHTERS, BELIEVED TO BE ME-109'S.
3 MEN FELL IN GOUDRAY, FRANCE.
2 WERE PICKED UP IN THE VICINITY OF MANCHECURT,
AND 1 LANDED ON THE TERRITORY OF BOULANCOURT, FRANCE.

TO MY KNOWLEDGE ALL 10 MEN BAILED OUT. 8 FOR SURE. 6 SURVIVED. 3 WERE CAPTURED AND 3 OTHERS ESCAPED WITH THE HELP OF THE LOCAL FRENCH RESISTANCE. DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY INFORMATION AS TO WHICH GERMAN FIGHTER PILOT MIGHT HAVE SHOT THIS B-17 DOWN, AND WHERE THE B-17 ACTUAL CRASH SITE MIGHT BE? 4 MEN DISAPPEARED. I AM ATTEMPTING TO FIND THE CRASH SITE AND IF POSSIBLE THE 4 MISSING MEN. IF ANYONE CAN HELP ME, PLEASE EMAIL ME AT.

KDKUTT@AOL.COM

THANK YOU,

KEITH...
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  #2  
Old 06-18-2004, 07:12 PM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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From TOCH!:

Anonymous
Re: B-17F SERIAL # 42-20302
Tue Jun 8, 2004 21:49
217.123.103.125

Try National Archives at College Park, Maryland. Record Group 242, German crash reports. They have records with the names of German pilots and Flak units, that shot down allied a/c.
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Old 06-18-2004, 07:13 PM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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From TOCH!:

Rabe Anton
Loss of Boeing B-17 s/n 42-20302
Tue Jun 8, 2004 22:32
132.60.240.80

I do not intend to be rude to "Anonymous" nor to dash your hopes, but the National Archives and Records Admininstration (NARA) has no means of locating helpful records from the information that you have. Period. You will be wasting your time and that of its staff by making an inquiry.

Believe me, there are only two possible sources that can help you, and neither is very promising:

(1) U.S. Army Individual Deceased Personnel Files (IDPF, or "293 Files") for the four missing members of the B-17 crew. These records may be obtained by application to the U.S. Army Human Resources Command, Alexandria, Virginia. The case files must be retrieved from the National Archives, thus it will take several weeks to receive an answer. The IDPF may contain one page or quite a number of pages; the files vary a great deal in quantity and quality of information. Given what you have indicated about this case and implied about your research, I am not optimistic that the IDPF will help you, as the U.S. Army seems not to have recovered remains; nonetheless you virtually have no choice but to try the IDPF.

(2) I suppose it is conceivable that the wreckage of B-17 s/n 42-20302 may have been discovered and recorded outside of U.S. channels, e.g., by local French civilians who found the site, in which instance the Service Historique de l'Armée de l'Air, Château de Vincennes, Paris, France, might conceivably be able to help. I think, however, that the chances of this are minute. Essentially, if the remains of the crew were not located and recovered in the great Graves Registration sweep of 1945-1947, there is little chance that they can be found today. Possibly, but very improbably.

You might be interested to know that HQ European Theatre of Operations, P/W and X Branch, Military Intelligence Service, Escape and Evasion Report No. 482 covers the cases of Shilliday and Marean; Hasson apparently escaped to Spain and was repatriated but there is no individual escape report for him.

Horrido!
RA
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Old 06-18-2004, 07:14 PM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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From TOCH!:

Laurent Rizzotti
B-17F SERIAL # 42-20302
Wed Jun 9, 2004 10:44
62.34.204.250


I doubt you can find the German pilot(s) responsible, as tens of bombers were claimed over France this day.

What is your source ? Especially regarding the French Resistance. The story of the escape of the 3 survivors is probably in one of the numerous books over the French Resistance (each french "departement" has tens of books written).

As for searching in the French archives, I don't think you can find something in the "Service historique de l'Air" about crashes in France in 1943. My bet would be to search the archives of the "Gendarmerie" (the French country police, a branch of the military), that was active in France in 43, contrary to the airforce, and was responsible for investigating the air crashes.
Try to contact the "Service Historique de l'Armée de Terre, Château de Vincennes, Paris, France". Same address as for the Air Force, only the service name is different.
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Old 06-18-2004, 07:14 PM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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From TOCH!:

KEITH KUTTESCH
ATTN. LAURENT RIZZOTTI...
Wed Jun 9, 2004 16:15
205.188.116.79

DEAR LAURENT,
PLEASE EMAIL ME. I HAVE A LOT OF INFORMATION ABOUT THE FRENCH RESISTANCE THAT HELPED MY UNCLE AND 2 OTHER MEN. THEY WERE TAKEN TO A DR MAYS' HOUSE FOR HIDING. EMAIL ME AND I WILL FILL YOU IN ON MORE. HOPEFULLY, AND MAYBE YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO FURNISH ME WITH SOME MORE INFORMATION.

THANK YOU,

KEITH...
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Old 06-18-2004, 08:54 PM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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From 12 O'Clock High!:

KEITH KUTTESCH
B-17F SERIAL #42-30203.NOT 20203
Wed Jun 9, 2004 00:09
205.188.117.11

I AM SORRY, WHEN I POSTED MY MESSAGE I MADE A MISTAKE. THE AIRCRAFT B-17F SERIAL@ 42-30203..NOT 20203. I AM SORRY FOR THIS MISTAKE....... THANK YOU R A FOR YOUR RESPONSE

KEITH...
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  #7  
Old 06-18-2004, 08:54 PM
Richard T Eger Richard T Eger is offline
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From TOCH!:

Tom Davis
B-17 #42-30203
Wed Jun 9, 2004 08:43
64.12.116.210

Keith,

B-17 #42-30203 was assigned to the 388th Bomb Group, 560th Squadron, and you may get help by contacting http://www.388thbg.org/ .

Tom
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